msmspilot
Well-Known Member
I just don't think I can agree with that. Dr. Cox says it better than I:
[YT]3zNjQecyjE8[/YT]
Pilotage/Dead Rec
- Thread starter jhugz
- Start date
I just don't think I can agree with that. Dr. Cox says it better than I:
[YT]3zNjQecyjE8[/YT]
charlie1017
Well-Known Member
Exactly! We have to teach the students how to use all available resources, both inside and outside the airplane. The problem arises when is when the student uses GPS as a crutch to compensate for other inadequacies in his/her navigation training.
bLizZuE
Calling for engine starts en français
It's a figure of speech. You get the idea.
sdfcvoh
This is my Custom Title
ditto to that man! presently i'm in my third week at a job in OK that was supposed to take 3 days. gotta love waiting for snow cover to clear so we can image while stuck in the armpit of the WORLD.
Corporate Pilot
Well-Known Member
I went to Oskosh one year in a swift with only an ADF.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
I tell you what I feel very confident as an instrument pilot, but this by far is one of my biggest weaknesses and something as an instructor I need to expand my knowledge of greatly. My extent of knowledge of the ADF is MH+RB=MB. Really need to find an airplane that has one so I can practice some NDB APP. All the airplane I fly are either to new or the ADF is In-Op.
Funny story about when I went on my instrument checkride. The examiner went into the airplane while I was preflighting and actually tried to turn on the ADF. He told me he had people IN-OPing the ADF with just the sticker when it wasn't really broke so they didn't have to do anything w/ NDB's.
XLR99
Well-Known Member
Now what are the chances that something there would be inop?
jhugz
Well-Known Member
welcome to the suck...
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XLR99
Well-Known Member
Haven"t seen duct tape on an airplane in quite awhile now. Interestingly, people keep migrating away from there to the west side. Hmmm.....
African_Swallow
Well-Known Member
My $0.02...
1) I always have a sectional for the area nearby on on my lap for dual X/Cs, even if I'd done it a zillion times. Subtle charts changes to include airspace boundaries, and if I haven't taken a student to some place in a few months, I assume I'm unfamiliar.
2) I always confirm we have an A/FD on X/Cs. Usually it's the one the student owns. This is the most comprehensive source for getting into some place.
3) I make sure my students are proficient in both pilotage/d'ed reckoning and GPS/VOR navigation skills. I adjust the focus of their training accordingly. I've seen both guys who are great in programming a G1000 but can't get out of a paper bag using pilotage, as well as the guys who are timid with programming anything but pick out pretty good VFR waypoints and stay on course without any problems. IMO, pilotage skills are a must for any VFR pilot. Case-in-point: you use these skills any time you fly a traffic pattern at a field that is located anywhere other than perfectly flat terrain. It's not uncommon to descend and lose sight of the field. In that case, you must pick out points to fly to/over if you are to successfully navigate to field and land. I've seen plenty of primary students get lost in the pattern their first time at an unfamiliar field. But...the guys I can recall who had this lesson "got it" nicely and when we started doing longer flights, really understood the value of picking out *easily identifiable* points on the ground for identification on the chart and vice-versa.
4) If I depart for a local flight in marginal conditions or if I suspect things might get worse, but not so bad to cancel right away, I always take approach plates. Not that I would be out of ideas without them, but I just see it as easy insurance.
5) With primary GPS training, I don't require that a VFR pilot knows everything about the system. But I do make sure certain things are covered: direct-to navigation, NRST airport function in the case of enroute emergencies, and (most relevant to this thread) not to rely on the GPS solely for airspace boundary depiction--the current chart is the authority here. Furthermore, with the availability of online training software for each platform I stress NOT devoting solo airtime to learning new GPS functions, as this is a recipe for disaster.
-A.S>
1) I always have a sectional for the area nearby on on my lap for dual X/Cs, even if I'd done it a zillion times. Subtle charts changes to include airspace boundaries, and if I haven't taken a student to some place in a few months, I assume I'm unfamiliar.
2) I always confirm we have an A/FD on X/Cs. Usually it's the one the student owns. This is the most comprehensive source for getting into some place.
3) I make sure my students are proficient in both pilotage/d'ed reckoning and GPS/VOR navigation skills. I adjust the focus of their training accordingly. I've seen both guys who are great in programming a G1000 but can't get out of a paper bag using pilotage, as well as the guys who are timid with programming anything but pick out pretty good VFR waypoints and stay on course without any problems. IMO, pilotage skills are a must for any VFR pilot. Case-in-point: you use these skills any time you fly a traffic pattern at a field that is located anywhere other than perfectly flat terrain. It's not uncommon to descend and lose sight of the field. In that case, you must pick out points to fly to/over if you are to successfully navigate to field and land. I've seen plenty of primary students get lost in the pattern their first time at an unfamiliar field. But...the guys I can recall who had this lesson "got it" nicely and when we started doing longer flights, really understood the value of picking out *easily identifiable* points on the ground for identification on the chart and vice-versa.
4) If I depart for a local flight in marginal conditions or if I suspect things might get worse, but not so bad to cancel right away, I always take approach plates. Not that I would be out of ideas without them, but I just see it as easy insurance.
5) With primary GPS training, I don't require that a VFR pilot knows everything about the system. But I do make sure certain things are covered: direct-to navigation, NRST airport function in the case of enroute emergencies, and (most relevant to this thread) not to rely on the GPS solely for airspace boundary depiction--the current chart is the authority here. Furthermore, with the availability of online training software for each platform I stress NOT devoting solo airtime to learning new GPS functions, as this is a recipe for disaster.
-A.S>
vikingair
Well-Known Member
I know a guy or two who is old enough to think we're wusses for using VOR
I've seen an old chart with the 4 course radio range which would have been very interesting indeed. And I know pilots who have only heard of NDB's. I could have gotten away without using the VOR except I needed a radial to define Bravo and stay clear.
I wonder what the next big nav breakthrough will be and how many of us will think pilots who've never experienced anything else are wusses?
I tried this a few times recently. First time was after my instrument ride (I had 2 G430s at all times) when I purposely took out a 2 VOR (/U) airplane and flew it to Miami using just VORs. Granted it was VFR the whole way, but it was still a good experience.
The last time was in an airplane without a GPS or a VOR that I was moving for MX. No FF, popped the headphones in, and just flew. It was very relaxing.
The last time was in an airplane without a GPS or a VOR that I was moving for MX. No FF, popped the headphones in, and just flew. It was very relaxing.
The cross country I took for the funeral flyby was accomplished with only pilotage, backed by DR, at 500 AGL. No GPS, no VOR, no TACAN, no ADF......no nothing for backups, and none needed.
It can be done and you can still be alive afterwards. Even these days! Contrary to some of the worry warts out there.
It can be done and you can still be alive afterwards. Even these days! Contrary to some of the worry warts out there.