Pilot Uniforms and Public Perception

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ppragman said:
I'm sure the chief pilot at FLX gets paid pretty well, probably has his choice of schedules, and plenty of time off.
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I doubt it. I would imagine that I probably make more money than him, and I'm only on second year pay. And how many broken airplanes do you have to fly and how many regs do you have to bust and how many asses do you have to kiss to become the CP at one of these kinds of companies? Sorry, but that's not a career.
 
PCL_128 said:
I doubt it. I would imagine that I probably make more money than him, and I'm only on second year pay. And how many broken airplanes do you have to fly and how many regs do you have to bust and how many asses do you have to kiss to become the CP at one of these kinds of companies? Sorry, but that's not a career.
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It depends on the company, FLX, ehhh, you're probably right, but for others, I know our CP makes at least 100,000 per year.
 
ppragman said:
It depends on the company, FLX, ehhh, you're probably right, but for others, I know our CP makes at least 100,000 per year.
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Well, then we're going to get down to opinions about what makes a decent salary. I would be very unsatisfied if $100k was my top income potential. That's not much money. With the soft pay that we get, I can make more than that even if I never upgrade, and we have some of the lowest FO pay in the industry.
 
I also agree that you can have a non-airline career. There are CFI's out there that are genuinely not interested in flying heavy metal. The key is to be professional in whatever plane you're flying.
 
Depending upon the pay and work conditions I could be happy doing that. Whether you call it a "career" or not doesn't matter to me.
 
To me, two careers stand out - Fire Fighting (from a plane) and crop dusting. Either would be very interesting to me. I think both are legitimate careers even though for Ag work you don't have a uniform. Mostly it is about the airplanes...I can't think of another job that would pay a reasonable wage to fly 1,000+ HP Taildraggers.
 
kellwolf said:
Eh, crap. There goes SWA as a "career," then. Might as well tell those guys to hang it up.
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This is one of the prime reasons I never applied to SWA. The truth is, the SWA payrates over the long haul are going to pretty much mirror the payrates of every other major air line, but they don't get that extra 10-16% that the other carriers are paying in defined contributions. They used to get it from profit sharing and stock grants, but the grants are no more, and the profit sharing certainly won't be what it was for the senior guys. Those guys need to get a real retirement plan, but they're so focused on securing scope during these negotiations that I don't think it will even be put on the table.
 
PCL_128 said:
This is one of the prime reasons I never applied to SWA. The truth is, the SWA payrates over the long haul are going to pretty much mirror the payrates of every other major air line, but they don't get that extra 10-16% that the other carriers are paying in defined contributions. They used to get it from profit sharing and stock grants, but the grants are no more, and the profit sharing certainly won't be what it was for the senior guys. Those guys need to get a real retirement plan, but they're so focused on securing scope during these negotiations that I don't think it will even be put on the table.
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Thread hijack:

Does SWAPA purchase services from ALPA? As a follow-up, can in-house unions order a list of services to purchase from ALPA ala cart, or are there only certain services available?
 
PCL_128 said:
A 401k plan is not a real retirement plan. I'm talking defined benefit or defined contribution, not employee contribution.
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Not a career unless it has a real retirement plan? A 401(k) isn't a real retirement plan???

Then I guess I've never had a career type job in my 30 or so years in the work force. Luckily it looks like I'll have a large enough retirement account to serve my purposes just fine, simply through 401(k) and IRA contributions out of the salary (very nice ones too, thank you) I've received over the years in my non-career positions. Does a seven figure net worth fail to meet your definition of an adequate net worth upon retirement also? (Just to clarify I'm not claiming I'm a millionaire. Yet.)

So far it looks to me like a rather silly definition you've got going. That's just my opinion though.

<shrugs shoulders>
 
WacoFan said:
Thread hijack:

Does SWAPA purchase services from ALPA?
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On occasion, yes. I'm not sure if they currently have a services agreement or not.

As a follow-up, can in-house unions order a list of services to purchase from ALPA ala cart, or are there only certain services available?
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Only some services are available. For instance, you can't purchase the services of most of the legal department. You can get the services of Seth Rosen, who is a former ALPA attorney, but he now works for the subsidiary that he started called International Pilot Services Corp. If you want to have a team of real ALPA attorneys working your case, then you have to be ALPA members.

You can purchase some things, though: economic & financial analysis (E & FA), safety training, negotiations training, communications assistance, etc... But there are a whole host of things that you can only get as members.
 
SteveC said:
Not a career unless it has a real retirement plan? A 401(k) isn't a real retirement plan???

Then I guess I've never had a career type job in my 30 or so years in the work force. Luckily it looks like I'll have a large enough retirement account to serve my purposes just fine, simply through 401(k) and IRA contributions out of the salary (very nice ones too, thank you) I've received over the years in my non-career positions. Does a seven figure net worth fail to meet your definition of an adequate net worth upon retirement also? (Just to clarify I'm not claiming I'm a millionaire. Yet.)

So far it looks to me like a rather silly definition you've got going. That's just my opinion though.

<shrugs shoulders>
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And by that definition, it limits the number of actual "careers" available, doesn't it?

In my company, not one person has a "real retirement plan." That holds true for most people in my field as well. Most make 6-figures or more though (And in some cases, much, much more.) Many have been in the field for 10 - 20 years. Hope they find a real career soon!
 
Goodness graces ladies. . .

PCL provided HIS opinion - opinion of what he views as "career" choices.

He didn't define "career."
 
surreal1221 said:
Goodness graces ladies. . .

PCL provided HIS opinion - opinion of what he views as "career" choices.

He didn't define "career."
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He gave his definition of "career." People are giving their opinions about his opinion.

Is this your first day on the internets?
 
PCL_128 said:
I've never considered any job to be a "career" job unless it has a real retirement plan attached to it. Retirement is simply part of a real career.
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PCL_128 said:
A 401k plan is not a real retirement plan. I'm talking defined benefit or defined contribution, not employee contribution.
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surreal1221 said:
Goodness graces ladies. . .

PCL provided HIS opinion - opinion of what he views as "career" choices.

He didn't define "career."
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We were talking about "career" jobs. Not a career.

What's with the use of the word "ladies", anyway? Wouldn't you rather discuss the topic like an adult???
 
Ladies was used because I think some of you were acting like ladies.

Card me if needed, but it is said in jest.

I know I can be wound up pretty tight, but it's time to relax and chill out. It's the holidays.
 
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