Pilot skill v. Aircraft Automation

juxtapilot said:
Use of automation and managing the other pilot is the challenge in these cases. Often I'll leave the autopilot on and manipulate the FD panel myself.. Once the autopilot is off the PF is essentially useless-leaving the other guy to manage the panel.. The newbies don't have the muscle memory of switch position so they're slow in button pushing and knob turning. If I am planning on disconnecting the AP early I'll tell the other guy my plan and have things set up as much as possible so they have very little to do. One thing I hate seeing is the FD's "plan" differ from the PF's actions.
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What?
 
Autothrust Blue said:
The engine failure at V1 is truly the worst-possible-scenario in terms of that particular malfunction combined with the need to precisely extract performance from the airplane (although I would say that it's actually slightly more difficult at 400' or on the go-around at initial thrust/power application from an approach setting). Mishandled, particularly in the presence of a complex departure procedure to clear terrain, it can easily lead to a less than satisfactory amount of clearance from said terrain. (For instance) Our CRJ program goes to RNO in the sim on a regular basis to fly those complex departures.
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Actually, in 99% of the scenarios in modern airframes it is a non-event. I remember as a turbo trash pilot going through the CRJ training... a few years ago. The "FO" was also a turbo trash transition to the jet. The first V1 cut the instructor hit the freeze button and yelled at us to stop flailing around and acting like turbo trash and start acting like jet pilots. You really don't need to do much. Just STFU until about 600', turn on the auto pilot, then do nothing until flap retraction altitude.
 
I'm pretty old school. I didn't even know what an autopilot was for the first 12 years of flying. My first job out of the military was flying a single pilot, no autopilot PA-34 hauling rubber checks. RNAV was a KNS-80, and only the high end airplanes had that.

But if you are going to be a pilot you need to be able to aviate, navigate and communicate. If your airplanes has an autopilot, you had better be able to use it, be you a private pilot or an ATP. You should also be able to fly the Expressway Visual 31 to LGA when the winds are gusting out of the South West.

Get over it. It's not an either/or argument. It's a "can you do both" argument. I remember one sim given a simulated pitot/static covered with tape. The FO kept saying it was an ADC failure. I told him it wasn't and instructed him to turn on the autopilot. Instructor said the autopilot would not work. You know what? It did. In the pitch and roll mode. Helped out. We were the first crew to make it through that EP without crashing the first time. Everyone else tried to hand fly it in IMC and failed. I used automation and succeeded.
 
Blackhawk said:
I'm pretty old school. I didn't even know what an autopilot was for the first 12 years of flying. My first job out of the military was flying a single pilot, no autopilot PA-34 hauling rubber checks. RNAV was a KNS-80, and only the high end airplanes had that.

But if you are going to be a pilot you need to be able to aviate, navigate and communicate. If your airplanes has an autopilot, you had better be able to use it, be you a private pilot or an ATP. You should also be able to fly the Expressway Visual 31 to LGA when the winds are gusting out of the South West.

Get over it. It's not an either/or argument. It's a "can you do both" argument. I remember one sim given a simulated pitot/static covered with tape. The FO kept saying it was an ADC failure. I told him it wasn't and instructed him to turn on the autopilot. Instructor said the autopilot would not work. You know what? It did. In the pitch and roll mode. Helped out. We were the first crew to make it through that EP without crashing the first time. Everyone else tried to hand fly it in IMC and failed. I used automation and succeeded.
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This is exactly it. It's not OK to not know how to use the automation. It's equally not OK to overly rely upon it to the detriment of your hand flying skills.
 
SrFnFly227 said:
Airline SOPs. When hand flying, the PF is not permitted to touch the flight guidance controls. ATC gives you a heading change, the PM has to spin the bug, while also talking on the radios and doing check lists, etc.
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It's a narrow line to tread. A "good" crewmember will handfly when they can to stay proficient but also keep an eye on the PM to make sure they aren't getting overloaded with checklists and the radio and managing the FCP. Even if you have the FD turned off, the other guy still has to make changes to the FCP despite the fact you aren't actually using any of that right then.
 
BobDDuck said:
It's a narrow line to tread. A "good" crewmember will handfly when they can to stay proficient but also keep an eye on the PM to make sure they aren't getting overloaded with checklists and the radio and managing the FCP. Even if you have the FD turned off, the other guy still has to make changes to the FCP despite the fact you aren't actually using any of that right then.
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This so much.

Keeping tabs on "the other guy" is one of the best and most important parts of CRM. I love to hand fly. The top three reasons I turn on the automation is 1) The sun is in my eyes. 2) I want to take a sip from my coffee. 3) The guy next to me is starting to get overwhelmed.
 
motormadness24 said:
My question is where is @ATN_Pilot? He should have commented by now.
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When I first started at my current airline, I was on the Airbus. It was very rare to fly an approach with the autopilot and auto thrust off. Some guys would even wince at the mere idea of it. Since I was new to fly-by-wire airplanes and the training department had scared the crap out of us about tail strikes, I was reluctant to ever fly an approach with the auto thrust off. I only did it in sim. I've been on the 757 for a year now and while I only have about 400 hours in it, I'm pretty comfortable hand flying it. The training department mantra with the 757 is when the autopilot gets turned off, you turn the auto throttles off. I'm comfortable with that idea now. Hell, I did an LHR-PHL with MEL'd auto throttles.

I just bid back to the Airbus on this latest bid. I think I'll be a lot more comfortable flying auto thrust off approaches now. I'll have to try it when I'm back on Fifi.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
This so much.

Keeping tabs on "the other guy" is one of the best and most important parts of CRM. I love to hand fly. The top three reasons I turn on the automation is 1) The sun is in my eyes. 2) I want to take a sip from my coffee. 3) The guy next to me is starting to get overwhelmed.
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It's good that you'll never hand fly an airplane ever again. :D
 
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