Pilot shortage

MOGuy424

Well-Known Member
So we all have heard of the upcoming "pilot shortage". Now when most people reference this event they are referring 121 operations. This has me wondering. With so many positions becoming available how many people will trade in their charter/corporate positions to obtain a job with the mainline 121 operators. I know most people who have a corporate or charter position do love that type of flying and working charter or corporate. But in the time I have spent in 121, I have met pilots who left a charter or corporate to pursue an airline career, chasing the prestige of a 737/757/767/777/320, etc. and the possibility to make a paycheck worthy of the crap you have to put up with in the airlines.
I would lovethe chance to cross over to a charter or corporate operation. I am a people person and I enjoy interaction with a company on a business level as much as I do flying. You just can not get that experience in the airlines.

So to my question. Do you guys/gals think that with this "pilot shortage" that more jobs will become available in the charter and corporate community?

Thanks! :D
 
Yes, I believe more corporate jobs will be available. But then I think we will lose them again.
 
I think that the guys flying most 91 type corp. gigs would be taking a major pay cut and downgrade of QOL to fly a Boeing. Not to mention that a lot of those 91 gigs are far more stable than the airlines so I'd say yes I think there will be some movement but I doubt the pilots will be leaving for the airlines in any large number. Of course, the kind of Corp. flying I'm refering to is different than NJ and those other Sub Park K kind of outfits. I know nothing about them so I don't have any idea.

PS- Yes I think there will be movement but I don't really buy the "pilot shortage" thing that people keep talking about. I hope there is one after the ATP rule goes through but I'm still skeptical of the size of this shortage. There are too many variables, too many ways for the airlines to tweek/cut/whatever and make the labor needs of the airlines more reasonable.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but most corporate or charter jobs have high entry level minimums so a lot of these pilots started out as a regional 121 pilot to build their time up. Unless the majors weren't hiring at the time they had the option to pursue either path.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but most corporate or charter jobs have high entry level minimums so a lot of these pilots started out as a regional 121 pilot to build their time up. Unless the majors weren't hiring at the time they had the option to pursue either path.

Well what you are talking about is the reverse phenomenon that has been going on for a decade, it used to be reversed.
 
Okay Krieger that sounds like good news and bad news. Can you expand on why you think they will be lost again?
 
Right because I remember hearing when I was younger of people doing the charter Corp to get the times to go to the airlines, back when mins were really high and being an airline pilot was as prestigious as being a doctor. Now we really are no more than a bus driver. Funny, my wife sent me a picture of a bus driver who had the exact same uniform as I do :D
 
Right because I remember hearing when I was younger of people doing the charter Corp to get the times to go to the airlines, back when mins were really high and being an airline pilot was as prestigious as being a doctor. Now we really are no more than a bus driver. Funny, my wife sent me a picture of a bus driver who had the exact same uniform as I do :D

The Bus driver get's better pensions, pay, and their crashpads are free. Bus drivers are glorified pilots.

PS: Bus drivers aren't under the RLA either (of course neither are railroad employees) so they can actually strike when their contract expires.
 
The Bus driver get's better pensions, pay, and their crashpads are free. Bus drivers are glorified pilots.

PS: Bus drivers aren't under the RLA either (of course neither are railroad employees) so they can actually strike when their contract expires.
 
Glorified pilots! Haha They also get tips from their passengers sometimes. No one has ever tipped me for safely flying them several hundred miles
 
Economy goes south, LOTS of corporate/135 aircraft are sitting/ sold. Just remember, there is no such thing as 100% stability. At any rate, part 91 can be a great job. But you've gotta find the right fit in the company, etc.
 
What pilot shortage? There is only a shortage of my patients waiting for some sort of pilot shortage. Oh look, it's a Unicorn...be right back. ...never mind, it was just a Chupacabara. ...where was I...oh yeah, pilot shortage. Look man, there is nothing wrong with short pilots. I'm only 5'4".
 
I would just settle for having the 121 guys to stop flooding the 91 job
market when the airlines furlough. :)

Thats why I'm trying to get into the 91 before any of that happens! :D
I never wanted to be a career airline pilot just get some experience in some turbine and get out. I'm pretty sure if I stick around the 121 any longer I'll have an aneurism.
 
With so many positions becoming available how many people will trade in their charter/corporate positions to obtain a job with the mainline 121 operators.
Not many. Pilots in fortune 100 companies will never trade their jobs for the "airline" lifestyle. Pilots in lower end charter/corp departments MIGHT consider it. Most likely, they would just move on to a "better" 91 position.
I have met pilots who left a charter or corporate to pursue an airline career……and the possibility to make a paycheck worthy of the crap you have to put up with in the airlines.
Big Airplane Syndrome (BAS) affects pilots in all areas of the market. But this isn't your Grandpa's airline anymore. Pilots used to build time in 91 ops to get on with airlines. But that was when the airlines had more (something) to offer. Airline bennies aren't worth much these days. I think most veteran corp guys know that the “big check” days at the majors are over.

So to my question. Do you guys/gals think that with this "pilot shortage" that more jobs will become available in the charter and corporate community?
No. Corporate positions are usually "handpicked" and have very low turnover. With many of the legacy corp departments that shut down in recent years, there are plenty of pilots to go around.
That’s why I'm trying to get into the 91 before any of that happens!
Too late. With so many 121 & 135 pilots on the street, those positions have already gotten harder to find. The unfortunate downside is that the 121 guys don’t/didn’t know the going rates for pilot services and underbid what the market was paying. That made it harder for the contract guys to make “normal” wages.
 
I would just settle for having the 121 guys to stop flooding the 91 job market when the airlines furlough. :)
I have talked to quite a few people who have faced this. One thing the "get-a-number-quick-1800-fly-jets-now" crowd is realizing (now) is that without PIC time, those jobs are hard to find. 2000 SIC/100 PIC doesn't go far. "Getting the number quick" works fine if you stay at the same carrier for LIFE. When you get furloughed, all it does is make you LESS marketable.
 
I've looked at the possibility of returning to the Part 121 world so I can at least share my thought process with you. There are pros and cons with both. The most persuasive reason to return to Part 121 has been, in my mind, a seniority number. If you are furloughed by "Brand X Airlines" and find yourself on the street for 10+ years, unable to find another flying job and working at McDonalds the thinking is that the number itself is worth something. Eventually that airline would recall you and when they do it is their responsibility to re-teach you how to fly.

If you are laid off by "Brand Y Corporate Flight Department" there are likely no recall rights. If you then find yourself on the street for 10+ years, unable to find another flying job and working at McDonalds, there is virtually no chance that anyone will swoop in and restore you to currency. Rather the longer you are on the street, the less marketable you are because you are that much further from the day that you were current and qualified.

Also, unlike most Part 121 carriers, these furloughs may occur out of seniority. That in and of itself is not an issue except that the older one gets, the harder to compete with the young folks for work. So if you are let go at 40...45...50 what is the likelihood that you would find work flying again?

All that said, Part 91 has many advantages. There are relatively few TSA hassles. I fly about 1/3rd as much per year as my Part 121 major airline colleagues for roughly the same pay. There are bonuses, stock grants (vs options), and the ability to collect hotel points (which really do add up, especially when you sign up for promotions). I like being able to rent a car on overnights and see the places we visit. Not long ago I posted some photos of a day trip we took to Area 51... last week I spent the day with my parents... yesterday I was kayaking in Maine. There is more flexibility to get time off for special life-events because you're not just a number. If you work hard, you are often rewarded. No hat, no tie, no stripes. The airplanes are always in pristine condition... any MELs are extremely rare. Most FBOs are far nicer places to spend the day than most airline crew-rooms I've visited. It's pretty rare to be working over Thanksgiving, Christmas, July 4th, etc... (the boss doesn't want to be away from home any more than you do) It's a terrific job -- more fun than I ever had doing out and backs to LaGarbage or sitting in the Conga line at Philly.

So when I was comparing the two I was using financial and lifestyle analysis.
1. Any 121 job will be a paycut -- at least for a while. How long will it take me to get back to my current level of compensation?
2. Then, how long will it take me to make up for the loss sustained during #1
3. Projecting out, what is the difference in pay over the remainder of my career
4. Does #3 offset possible decreases in quality of life associated with commuting, reserve, etc.

The problem is that very few airlines these days pass #2 and #3. As the airline industry further consolidates the choices are fewer and farther between. I have friends at LCCs and startups who love their jobs, but it would be financially irresponsible for me to pursue a career there .... unless I were to lose my current job. Even at the majors the numbers really don't work except for a few, and then only if you consider upgrade a possibility which, for most, is a pretty long timeframe. And then there is the unpleasant reality that even if I find one that I would be willing to leave for... getting the job has proven to be a challenge. I've had a few interviews, but none successful.

I would recommend Part 91 to anyone, it's truly a blast! But as a person who has been unemployed in aviation a time or two (or four) when I was younger, I can't help but to imagine going through the same thing as I get older -- and now with a family to feed. Scares the heck out of me.
 
If a reduction of pilots put me in corporate row in Omaha...I'd be a happy camper and never leave but it's my opinion that most of those guys are going nowhere no matter how in demand pilots get, just as I wouldn't.
 
All that said, Part 91 has many advantages. There are relatively few TSA hassles. I fly about 1/3rd as much per year as my Part 121 major airline colleagues for roughly the same pay. There are bonuses, stock grants (vs options), and the ability to collect hotel points (which really do add up, especially when you sign up for promotions). I like being able to rent a car on overnights and see the places we visit.

Who do you think works more? The average airline pilot or the average corporate pilot? Obviously the 121 pilot puts in more flying hours but if you are the type of family man that physiologically categorizes being away from home as "work" then it could be corporate pilots. We had a citation X at my last company and those pilots sometimes flew 2 hours on Monday morning then sat around for the whole week and flew back on Friday or maybe Thursday night.
 
Who do you think works more? The average airline pilot or the average corporate pilot?

Having done both jobs I can say categorically that I worked a lot more, and was away from home a lot more when I flew 121.
 
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