Boieng747pilot
New Member
What is the difference between a profesional and a commercial pilot?
I see them a lot in college courses...
Just wanted to know.:nana2:
I see them a lot in college courses...
Just wanted to know.:nana2:
Pilot Differences
- Thread starter Boieng747pilot
- Start date
juxtapilot
Snowflake
Interesting question... I suppose cwu50's right... Interchangeable. Not sure though. I have always thought of them as the same thing. A professional pilot has commercial ratings. And a commercial pilot has the right to be called a professional. 
irate:
irate:
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I look at the question a little bit differently. As in, "What makes someone a professional?"
Is it simply the fact that one gets paid to perform a task? Or is there something more to professionalism?
In my personal opinion (FWIW) professionalism is more than just a position that you hold, rather it is an approach you take to your job each and every day.
A monkey could master the mechanics of flying the airplane, but a true professional will take pride in every aspect of his or her performance. A professional will look and act the part. He will comply with his company SOP -- even the parts he disagrees with. That is not to say that there are times when you must stray from the SOP to accomodate an abnormal situation -- of course there are. But during normal everyday operations are you in compliance? Do you wear the uniform as required by your SOP? Do you wear your hat? Do you polish your shoes?
Perhaps that sounds silly, but it is the impression of exellence that speaks first to your customers. They do not have any way to judge your flying ability other than how they perceive you...and perception, to our customers, is reality.
Once the cockpit door is closed, how do you conduct yourself? Do you use excessive breakaway thrust to taxi? Or are you patient enough to allow the airplane to slowly and smoothly begin taxi at idle thrust? Do you taxi slowly and slow during turns so as to provide a smooth ride for your passengers?
Do you use spoilers excessively, or do you plan your descents so as to avoid their use? Do you use VNAV as a crutch? Do you fly approaches to ATP standards? Do you touch down on centerline and in the touchdown zone every single time?
How do you approach training? Do you study every six months or every year as if you were taking a type ride? Do you know your limitations and memory items verbatim?
Professionalism is a matter of pride and of integrity. It is taking pleasure in doing the job correctly each and every time you go to work. You will never achieve perfection, but professionalism is taking pride in making the attempt on every flight.
My personal pet peeve is a pilot who may "grease it on" but he or she did so 50 feet left of the centerline. That is unacceptable. The nosewheel should lower onto the stripes. That's why they painted them. A smooth landing that is not made on centerline within the touchdown zone is sloppy.
Ok. Now i'll step down from my soapbox and allow the spikey-haired, backpack carrying, black-sneaker wearing, pilots who carry their hats for four days flame me while they explain that "they dont get paid enough to wear a hat or land on centerline."
Toughen up buttercup. You knew the dress code and the pay when you applied for the job and interviewed in your blue suit and red tie. You accept the job, you accept all of the criteria for that job. That is professional.
Is it simply the fact that one gets paid to perform a task? Or is there something more to professionalism?
In my personal opinion (FWIW) professionalism is more than just a position that you hold, rather it is an approach you take to your job each and every day.
A monkey could master the mechanics of flying the airplane, but a true professional will take pride in every aspect of his or her performance. A professional will look and act the part. He will comply with his company SOP -- even the parts he disagrees with. That is not to say that there are times when you must stray from the SOP to accomodate an abnormal situation -- of course there are. But during normal everyday operations are you in compliance? Do you wear the uniform as required by your SOP? Do you wear your hat? Do you polish your shoes?
Perhaps that sounds silly, but it is the impression of exellence that speaks first to your customers. They do not have any way to judge your flying ability other than how they perceive you...and perception, to our customers, is reality.
Once the cockpit door is closed, how do you conduct yourself? Do you use excessive breakaway thrust to taxi? Or are you patient enough to allow the airplane to slowly and smoothly begin taxi at idle thrust? Do you taxi slowly and slow during turns so as to provide a smooth ride for your passengers?
Do you use spoilers excessively, or do you plan your descents so as to avoid their use? Do you use VNAV as a crutch? Do you fly approaches to ATP standards? Do you touch down on centerline and in the touchdown zone every single time?
How do you approach training? Do you study every six months or every year as if you were taking a type ride? Do you know your limitations and memory items verbatim?
Professionalism is a matter of pride and of integrity. It is taking pleasure in doing the job correctly each and every time you go to work. You will never achieve perfection, but professionalism is taking pride in making the attempt on every flight.
My personal pet peeve is a pilot who may "grease it on" but he or she did so 50 feet left of the centerline. That is unacceptable. The nosewheel should lower onto the stripes. That's why they painted them. A smooth landing that is not made on centerline within the touchdown zone is sloppy.
Ok. Now i'll step down from my soapbox and allow the spikey-haired, backpack carrying, black-sneaker wearing, pilots who carry their hats for four days flame me while they explain that "they dont get paid enough to wear a hat or land on centerline."
Toughen up buttercup. You knew the dress code and the pay when you applied for the job and interviewed in your blue suit and red tie. You accept the job, you accept all of the criteria for that job. That is professional.
Qgar
New Member
Wow, that is a GREAT post, especially for so early on a Saturday morning. I'm not a pilot, but agree with the part of how someone accepts a job knowing full-well all the rules/regs, dresses and acts the part to GET the job, then pisses and moans every day after they're hired. This is not strictly inherent to the airline industry. I'm currently in early childhood education (starting FA training soon), and I see and hear it EVERY single day. If you don't like your career/job/employers -- here's a concept -- LEAVE!!! You make yourself look like an • by complaining day in and day out and you are a downer for the rest of your coworkers. :banghead:
nosehair
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I want summa dat!
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Nah, just been thinking about it for a while. I've noticed that some pilots are selective about which regulations or policies they follow. The same pilot who is extremely conscientious about making certain to be less than 200 knots below class B airspace, for example, will completely ignore the same speed limit within class D airspace.
Why do experienced pilots allow themselves to become complacent...and if complacency sets in, are they still considered "professional"?
Just a few thoughts to help you wake up on a Saturday morning.
Why do experienced pilots allow themselves to become complacent...and if complacency sets in, are they still considered "professional"?
Just a few thoughts to help you wake up on a Saturday morning.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
to give another aspet of a similar post, i train student pilots to become professional private pilots.
i agree professionalism is about conduct not ratings.
to me a commercial pilot is one who gets paid to fly, a professional pilot is one who conducts themself in a manner as defined by professional/professionalism (ie a person whi is an expert at their work, having or showing great skill,
i agree professionalism is about conduct not ratings.
to me a commercial pilot is one who gets paid to fly, a professional pilot is one who conducts themself in a manner as defined by professional/professionalism (ie a person whi is an expert at their work, having or showing great skill,
FlyingSig
Well-Known Member
Good post...here's some more food for thought though in regards to professionalism....
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Oh come now. A fuel efficient descent does not require the use of spoilers.
What I meant with regard to using the VNAV as a crutch are pilots who accept a crossing restriction, then only after plugging it in to the VNAV realize that the excessive rate of descent will require aggressive use of the spoilers. That's sloppy. It's poor situational awareness and worse, it is overly accommodating to ATC.
To paraphrase the old joke, the speed brakes are for my mistakes, not the controller's.
What I meant with regard to using the VNAV as a crutch are pilots who accept a crossing restriction, then only after plugging it in to the VNAV realize that the excessive rate of descent will require aggressive use of the spoilers. That's sloppy. It's poor situational awareness and worse, it is overly accommodating to ATC.
To paraphrase the old joke, the speed brakes are for my mistakes, not the controller's.
taildragger173
Well-Known Member
I agree with what has been said but I'm going to toss in my two cents for a second. Professionalism is something that you earn over-time based on your experience. It is your knowledge, skill, and decision making skills. You dont have to be a commercial pilot to be a professional! How do you conduct yourself in the airplane and around others. What is your approach to flying airplanes? All of that lends itself to professionalism.
I've flown with some private pilots that are more professional than some ATPs that I've flown with. The professionals (in small airplanes) are the ones that give me a good safety briefing, tell me when it is safe to talk (Sterile cockpit concept), keep a good scan up for traffic and use their checklists. They are the ones that do not exhibit the hazadous attitudes especially macho and anti-authority. They understand the rules and why they were created and they work to improve their skills everytime they fly. A good pilot is always learning.
On the commercial level, I dont think that much changes with the definition of professionalism. Now the person is getting paid and with that comes a higher responsibility. They should strive to give their passengers the best possbile ride while following the rules and not skimping on the checklists or flows. They should have a good handle on the airplane.
A professional flight instructor is someone who has knowledge and experience that can be passed on to their students. They are not just their to get flight hours but rather take on a caring/mentoring role to their students. A professional flight instructor is someone who goes to their student's checkride just incase something happens. A professional flight instructor wouldnt send a student up for a checkride unless they are ready. A professional flight instructor doesnt cancel lessons unless they have to. A professional flight instructor works in the student's best interest.
Just my two cents
I've flown with some private pilots that are more professional than some ATPs that I've flown with. The professionals (in small airplanes) are the ones that give me a good safety briefing, tell me when it is safe to talk (Sterile cockpit concept), keep a good scan up for traffic and use their checklists. They are the ones that do not exhibit the hazadous attitudes especially macho and anti-authority. They understand the rules and why they were created and they work to improve their skills everytime they fly. A good pilot is always learning.
On the commercial level, I dont think that much changes with the definition of professionalism. Now the person is getting paid and with that comes a higher responsibility. They should strive to give their passengers the best possbile ride while following the rules and not skimping on the checklists or flows. They should have a good handle on the airplane.
A professional flight instructor is someone who has knowledge and experience that can be passed on to their students. They are not just their to get flight hours but rather take on a caring/mentoring role to their students. A professional flight instructor is someone who goes to their student's checkride just incase something happens. A professional flight instructor wouldnt send a student up for a checkride unless they are ready. A professional flight instructor doesnt cancel lessons unless they have to. A professional flight instructor works in the student's best interest.
Just my two cents
sorrygottarunway
Well-Known Member
I've been grappling with this for the past month since I've been out on the line as a captain. I've noticed that the atmosphere with each FO changes, and lately I've noticed it sometimes depends on the age of myself and/or FO. At my company there is quite a mix, although mostly young, and I found that while the SOPs/REGs and aircraft procedures are followed in each case, with some of the younger pilots it tends to be more of a relaxed environment, and with the FOs above my age (as in, more than 10-15 years), it tends to be more of an office environment, more like what you could watch on youtube from some of the european airlines. I tend to like the latter better for some reason. Below 10,000 (or cruise if it's lower), just get the job done! I've found that it is too easy to "do the routine" into familiar airports and then miss something, or miss an unexpected controller call asking for something, etc. Maybe some people I've flown with view me a little bit boring I guess, but hey, I promise to get the job done safely! And then... on time!
Complacency is awful, because you won't notice your complacent until something happens. Usually its nothing big, like forgetting to flip a switch... but sometimes you could be so ingrained to your usual taxi instructions at your familiar spot at the flight school, that you forget that today its a different runway, and you just taxied across the active by accident!
Be careful out there!
Complacency is awful, because you won't notice your complacent until something happens. Usually its nothing big, like forgetting to flip a switch... but sometimes you could be so ingrained to your usual taxi instructions at your familiar spot at the flight school, that you forget that today its a different runway, and you just taxied across the active by accident!
Be careful out there!
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Anyone have the transcript of the roundtables at NJC? I just want to paste that in here.
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
:laff:
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Really? Is landing on centerline an unreasonable request of an ATP?
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
No, I was just kidding.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
To answer your question there is no airspeed limitation within class B airspace. You are, of course, restricted to 250 knots below 10,000 msl regardless.
My quote above was referencing class "D" airspace where there is a 200 knot limitation.
FAR 91.117(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may
operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4
nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace
area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.)
and of course below class "B" there is a 200 knot limitation.
FAR 91.117(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a
Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor
designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated
airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
Geez...after all of that work, the guy who asked me if I was sure about the speed limit within class "b" airspace deleted his question!
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Yeah, sorry Zap. I figured this thread wasn't the place. 
But hey - I'm glad you answered it anyway.
But hey - I'm glad you answered it anyway.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Just had to make sure I wasn't wrong. I didn't think I was, but it wouldnt be the first time. 