Pilot: a good career choice?

RickRoss747

New Member
Hey, I'm deciding whether aviation is for me. I just have caught the aviation bug so badly; it just seems that this would be the most fun career for me. I would actually enjoy my job, just not the pay. Although, I do have "many" concerns... I have noticed that pilots are just not as respected anymore as they were in the twentieth century; it may just be me... In the next fifty years, do you guys think that pilots will ever be thought of as bus drivers? Will the prestige ever go away? How badly will the pay go down in the next upcoming years, say 15-20 years from now. Is it possible that planes will ever go green, not using oil anymore, or if oil is out; are pilots/transportation screwed? Basically, will airlines get better in the future, or is this permanent? And most importantly, will computers ever take over a cockpit completely, not allowing for any pilots to watch over? Will they ever take the co-pilot out in this lifetime, making competition at airlines 50% tougher to get into?

I'm not asking you guy to exactly look at your crystal balls, but to give a logic answer/opinion from your experiences/knowledge...
Thanks guys:rawk:
 
In the next fifty years, do you guys think that pilots will ever be thought of as bus drivers?

No.

Will the prestige ever go away?

I think it already has...but we aren't to the level of bus drivers, either.

How badly will the pay go down in the next upcoming years, say 15-20 years from now.

Who knows. Some say we're on an unstoppable downward spiral of constantly underbidding each other. I tend to disagree. I think it's an up and down cycle that is bound to reverse, at least to some degree. Pay sucks so bad at this point, and training is getting so expensive, I think the supply of pilots will slowly dry up. The ones who are still around will demand better compensation. I predict pay will go up within the next 10 years. But I could be completely wrong. Nobody knows.

Is it possible that planes will ever go green, not using oil anymore, or if oil is out; are pilots/transportation screwed?

It's all possible, and I'd say quite likely...but not during our careers. I'd look for those changes during our grandkids' careers.

Basically, will airlines get better in the future, or is this permanent?

What's considered better? First, I'm skeptical that the "golden days" were actually as golden as people make them out to be. Second, one man's "better" is another man's "worse." Some people love automation, some hate it. Some complain about pay, some learn to live with what they get. I guess "better" is such a subjective term that it's hard to say what the future will be like.

And most importantly, will computers ever take over a cockpit completely, not allowing for any pilots to watch over? Will they ever take the co-pilot out in this lifetime, making competition at airlines 50% tougher to get into?

Probably, but again, not during our careers.
 
And most importantly, will computers ever take over a cockpit completely, not allowing for any pilots to watch over? Will they ever take the co-pilot out in this lifetime, making competition at airlines 50% tougher to get into?
I really doubt that. Let's say that once in every 100,000 airline flights a pilot is incapacitated (a number I really just made up). Having a second pilot makes it 100,000 times less likely you'll loose the entire flight crew. Airlines will want to pay FO wages for that extra safety. It's also the safest way to build experience for your captains.
 
I dunno, i look forward to going to work. i fly charter.... i cant imagine actually working for a living
 
Regardless of what I read and hear from other pilots about this industry, one things is clear: There is nothing else I'd rather be doing.
 
Hey, I'm deciding whether aviation is for me. I just have caught the aviation bug so badly; it just seems that this would be the most fun career for me. I would actually enjoy my job, just not the pay. Although, I do have "many" concerns... I have noticed that pilots are just not as respected anymore as they were in the twentieth century; it may just be me... In the next fifty years, do you guys think that pilots will ever be thought of as bus drivers? Will the prestige ever go away? How badly will the pay go down in the next upcoming years, say 15-20 years from now. Is it possible that planes will ever go green, not using oil anymore, or if oil is out; are pilots/transportation screwed? Basically, will airlines get better in the future, or is this permanent? And most importantly, will computers ever take over a cockpit completely, not allowing for any pilots to watch over? Will they ever take the co-pilot out in this lifetime, making competition at airlines 50% tougher to get into?

I'm not asking you guy to exactly look at your crystal balls, but to give a logic answer/opinion from your experiences/knowledge...
Thanks guys:rawk:

I'm guessing that right now you are either a private pilot or are working towards a private pilot certificate. I'm glad the aviation bug has bitten you. The more pilots out there, the better chance to preserve general aviation.

That said, you need to understand that it's one thing to fly airplanes for fun, it's another to fly airplanes for a living. As a general aviation pilot you get to fly any type of airplane you want. You can fly it where you want, when you want, how you want. Equally important, you get to decide NOT to fly if you so choose.

As a professional pilot, you don't get those choices. Your employer tells you where you're flying, when you are flying there, and for the most part, how you will operate the airplane. You do have the choice not to fly, but you'd better have a good explanation why.

Now consider the lifestyle of the average airline pilot. You are up at 4AM to make a 6AM check-in for a 7AM departure. You work a long (12 hours or more) day, at the end of which you go to some cheap hotel. Hopefully there is a decent restaurant nearby that is open. Afterwards you try to get a decent night's sleep on a lousy bed, while trying to adjust to crossing several time zones that day.

On average, you will do this for 4 days, and then you will get to go home for 3 days off. Then you will do it all over again. As a new employee of the company, you will be doing this on weekends and holidays. With seniority you will be able to have weekends and holidays off, but this take many years.

You need to decide if this is a lifestyle you can live with for the rest of your career. I'm guessing you are young and single, and you are probably telling yourself that you can. But once you have a family, you may find your priorities changing. Think about that.

As for the rest of your questions: pilots are no more or less respected than any other profession. Think of the professionals you know: doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, engineers, accountants, salesmen, etc. How do you respect them? Probably in the same way that they think of pilots. It's a job that requires a certain amouont of hard work to become skilled and qualified for, just like all the others.

Pilots are bus drivers. Highly trained and skilled drivers whose bus flies at 500 mph at 35000 feet; but when you get past all that, they operate a piece of machinery on a schedule, just bus drivers do.

Pay has been declining for the past 30 years. Not constantly, but if you compared wages and cost of living today vs. 30 years ago, you would find that the overall trend is negative. I've no idea how low it may go, but as long as there is a supply of pilots who "just wanna fly" then there will be no upward pressure on wages. I tend to think that wages are near to bottoming out, and will then there will be some upward movement. How much I do cannot say, but it will be nowhere near what pilots used to make.

Everything, to a certain extent, is "going green." Airlines and airplanes are no different. How green is a matter for debate, but one thing is certain: There is a finite supply of oil on this planet, and one day it will run out. What happens after that depends on how well government and industry prepared for that day. However, until the Star Trek style transporter is invented, there will always be a need for people and things to be flown on airplanes. How much of a need? Who knows? I tend to think that in the future, people will travel more for recreation than business, but so far the statistics prove me wrong.

Will airlines get better? That depends on how you define "better." If you mean better pay and more prestige, probably not.

I believe the day is coming when there will be automated aircraft in the sky. The technology exists now. It just has not been proven to the point where anyone will accept them. However, that does not mean that they will be pilotless. Railroads have been around for upwards of 150 years, and the technology exists for them to be automated, but they still have engineers on board. I do believe we will see single pilot aircraft.

There you have it. My take on this profession. Worth every penny you paid for it.
 
Welcome! How old are you? Where are you in your flight training?

Sky Dog makes some great points. This job is a GREAT one, but it certainly isn't for everyone. The novelty of traveling wears off quickly, and you'll develop a strong desire to find a job where you can drive home every night. Personally, I'd rather not be stuck in rush hour traffic every night and the feeling wanes, but I still feel it sometimes.

You must intrinsically enjoy the art of flying from point A to point B to a level that outweighs the drawbacks of the career. I personally love my job and have a very hard time seeing myself doing anything else. However, that doesn't mean that I don't yearn a predictable schedule every now and then. You must also realize that there is a whole world of aviation outside the airlines, from training facilities to aircraft sales teams. I am a regional airline pilot, but this is by no means your only option. It all depends on personal preference.

I have noticed that pilots are just not as respected anymore as they were in the twentieth century; it may just be me... In the next fifty years, do you guys think that pilots will ever be thought of as bus drivers?


If you want to be a professional pilot, you're going to need to get past this quickly. The "prestige" of ANY job wears off in about two weeks, and you'll soon realize that many people don't respect people who should be respected. I knew many, many people who become federal agents for the wrong reasons (the badge and the gun) only to find out the daily duties of the job weren't for them. Same with pilots... you need to go in with realistic expectations. It shouldn't matter what others think of your chosen profession as long as you're satisfied. There are tons of municipal bus drivers that are proud of the work they do. If being referred to as a "bus driver" annoys you, then you should reconsider why you want to be a pilot.


Good luck!
J.
 
When people ask me about it for a career choice, I am pretty down on it.

Consider now that you can get hired with less than 500 hrs flight time. Sounds great huh? It also highlights the fact that there is not too much involved (besides $$) to get the skill set required to launch into the career. And airlines KNOW that. And they will always know that.

It sounds great when you are in your low 20's. When you are in your mid 40's and all your friends and family are making significantly more cash AND are home weekends and holidays to see there kids dance recital, the shine has fallen off the apple. Also, I think you would be hard pressed to find someone in their mid 40's in this profession that has not lost a friend or two "Chasing the dream".

I have a friend who is 38 and found a heart problem. Guess what. He still goes to work and makes over 100K as an engineer. It is now not a life threatening deal, but it would be a deal breaker at an AME's office. Ask yourself what you would do if you were him, with mortgage, two car payments, braces, etc.

Just playing devils advocate here. If I could now make the same cash or better and be home every day, I would not think too hard about it.

Finally, as someone on another board points out, don't do it for the money or respect, because if you do, you will be sorely disappointed.
 
Ok, all of this is simply my humble opinion. Right or wrong, I don't know, but it's just the way I see it:

In the next fifty years, do you guys think that pilots will ever be thought of as bus drivers?

Some already do, but they're generally the mouth-breathing "I've got more miles than you do" types. You really can't chase "glory" with a yoke and no bomb racks so I don't really worry as much as I used to about what the general public thinks about the importance of my job.

Will the prestige ever go away?

I'm not sure. The prestige has waned, it MAY come back, I'm not sure. But you're still "kinda somebody big" other in Europe as a pilot. At least as far as I've seen. Wait until you go to Spain or Italy! :) Hell, even the Parisians at CDG treat you somewhat like royalty. Not that I need that, it's just an interesting observation.

How badly will the pay go down in the next upcoming years, say 15-20 years from now.

Hopefully, with a lot of hard work, it'll spike back up. Of course there'll be naysayers, but I've got hope for the future. If I didn't have hope for the future (and the present), I'd be at TruckMasters.

Is it possible that planes will ever go green, not using oil anymore, or if oil is out; are pilots/transportation screwed?

Will the airlines "go green"? I'm sure in the next 50 years, we're not going to be burning 100% unadulterated Jet-A, probably some type of blended fuel.

Will air travel go away? Nope, we live in too large of a country not to have air travel and no one wants to ride on a steamship from New York to Le Havre, France.

Basically, will airlines get better in the future, or is this permanent?

Ten year cycles!

And most importantly, will computers ever take over a cockpit completely, not allowing for any pilots to watch over?

I think Airbus tried that already...

[yt]a5NXpar4Ouw[/yt]

Will they ever take the co-pilot out in this lifetime, making competition at airlines 50% tougher to get into?

Doubtful. Whose going to hand my crew meal through the door or work the autopilot when I'm taking a whizz? :)
 
I think Airbus tried that already...

[yt]a5NXpar4Ouw[/yt]

I literally laughed out loud when I watched that. Good form. I love the dry unemotional narrator.

EDIT: I didn't know that plane had people on board...not funny in that respect. I thought it was a test plane.
 
My take.

In my opinion, any career, is what you make of it. No career comes with guarantees. No career can guarantee security, a large pay check, or that you will move to the upper tiers of that field. Many like to assume that careers outside of aviation automatically pay more, than being an airline pilot, or that they offer more stability, and less BS, if you will, than the airline industry. That can be true, in some cases, but certainly not the majority. Truth be told, only about 5% of American workers make six figures. While it is possible, no career can guarantee you a large pay check, and realistically, you don't have a better chance of making significantly more money outside of aviation, than being an airline pilot, if six figures is your mark.

I wondered on to a message board yesterday, that was basically just like this one, but a networking site for people going into medical careers, i.e, doctors, nurses, pharmacists. On several occassions I has to stop myself, and make sure I wasn't in an aviation message board. Everything they said, about their careers, their pay, etc., was exactly what gets said in these boards. The grass isn't greener. One guy said it wasn't worth it to become a doctor, because he had spent 10 years in school, near $300K in debt, and was making $35K-$55K as a new resident, and that he wouldn't make over $150K. Many others had the same gripes. They were all talking about the "decline" of the medical profession, overall, it was highly reminiscent of what you read on aviation message boards. It isn't really better, anywhere else.

I think that pay will go back up. It may not reach the level that some people think it should, i.e., counting inflation a wide body captain should be making $500K. But, I do think it will go back up. I think we will see that, in the next few years, as legacy contracts become ammendable. In many ways, regional pay has gone up, and hopefully that will be a trend.

Competition is fierce, in any career. I was looking through Forbe Magazine's top 100 companies to work for, in 2007. Of just the top 10 companies, they had about 140 applicants per job. As far as salary, the most common salaried job held by these companies, was less than six figures, on average, and not an unatainable salary for a regional captain. I am not trying to get into a pay argument here, but I just think too many people assume that outside of aviation, it is easy to make money, when it is not. Of the 2 people I know, making six figures, they worked for MANY years to reach that, and worked VERY hard to reach it. With their increased salary, they have more responsibility, work longer hours, and honestly, do not care for their jobs.

Obviously the life style of being an airline pilot, is not for everybody. It isn't a normal 9-5 job. BUT, I think it is important for people to do what they love. Going into ANY career field, for money, or prestige, is the wrong thing to do, and almost always leads to people being unhappy. Of those 5% of American workers making six figures, I'd be willing to bet that some would gladly give up that sixth figure, to have a job that they liked going to a little more.

I guess what I am saying, is if you want to be a pilot, than be a pilot. Only you can answer for yourself whether or not it is worth it, or is a good career. There will always be at least 10%, or so, of people, in any career, who don't like it. Listen to their advice, but don't allow the nay sayers to make your decision for you. You can have just as a succesful, and prosperous of a career, as an airline pilot, as with any career. All careers have ups, and downs, so just do what you love, and money, etc., will follow.
 
Consider now that you can get hired with less than 500 hrs flight time. Sounds great huh? It also highlights the fact that there is not too much involved (besides $$) to get the skill set required to launch into the career. And airlines KNOW that. And they will always know that.


I understand what you're trying to say, but have a very hard time NOT seeing the same issue parallel MANY other professions. In many municipalities, police work requires a ninth grade reading level and high school diploma. Does that mean there aren't highly educated, proactive, and articulate cops out there? It takes very little concrete training to become a salesperson, investment banker, or real estate agent. Does that mean that being MORE qualified and doing a good job makes your skill set worthless? It shouldn't, even if it's only for personal satisfaction.

Sure, some airlines hire the bare minimum, as do some police departments, investment firms, etc. The outcome of a standard flight, accident report, or trading floor transaction may be the same. Professionalism is developing your skills and staying proficient, having nothing to do with the fact that an inexperienced can probably meet standard. You might never have to use your extraordinary skill, but at least you'll be proficient and ready. Look at the Secret Service and Air Marshals. Many NEVER use their years of training with a handgun, but that doesn't make them worthless.

No, this job isn't "hard" and can be executed by a 300-hour pilot most of the time (which the airlines realize). However, I know that through my hard work, I have improved and become a better pilot and crew member since becoming an professional pilot. The passengers may not notice or care, but one shouldn't be deferring to them for job satisfaction, nor management.

J.
 
My take.

In my opinion, any career, is what you make of it. No career comes with guarantees. No career can guarantee security, a large pay check, or that you will move to the upper tiers of that field. Many like to assume that careers outside of aviation automatically pay more, than being an airline pilot, or that they offer more stability, and less BS, if you will, than the airline industry. That can be true, in some cases, but certainly not the majority. Truth be told, only about 5% of American workers make six figures. While it is possible, no career can guarantee you a large pay check, and realistically, you don't have a better chance of making significantly more money outside of aviation, than being an airline pilot, if six figures is your mark.

I wondered on to a message board yesterday, that was basically just like this one, but a networking site for people going into medical careers, i.e, doctors, nurses, pharmacists. On several occassions I has to stop myself, and make sure I wasn't in an aviation message board. Everything they said, about their careers, their pay, etc., was exactly what gets said in these boards. The grass isn't greener. One guy said it wasn't worth it to become a doctor, because he had spent 10 years in school, near $300K in debt, and was making $35K-$55K as a new resident, and that he wouldn't make over $150K. Many others had the same gripes. They were all talking about the "decline" of the medical profession, overall, it was highly reminiscent of what you read on aviation message boards. It isn't really better, anywhere else.

I think that pay will go back up. It may not reach the level that some people think it should, i.e., counting inflation a wide body captain should be making $500K. But, I do think it will go back up. I think we will see that, in the next few years, as legacy contracts become ammendable. In many ways, regional pay has gone up, and hopefully that will be a trend.

Competition is fierce, in any career. I was looking through Forbe Magazine's top 100 companies to work for, in 2007. Of just the top 10 companies, they had about 140 applicants per job. As far as salary, the most common salaried job held by these companies, was less than six figures, on average, and not an unatainable salary for a regional captain. I am not trying to get into a pay argument here, but I just think too many people assume that outside of aviation, it is easy to make money, when it is not. Of the 2 people I know, making six figures, they worked for MANY years to reach that, and worked VERY hard to reach it. With their increased salary, they have more responsibility, work longer hours, and honestly, do not care for their jobs.

Obviously the life style of being an airline pilot, is not for everybody. It isn't a normal 9-5 job. BUT, I think it is important for people to do what they love. Going into ANY career field, for money, or prestige, is the wrong thing to do, and almost always leads to people being unhappy. Of those 5% of American workers making six figures, I'd be willing to bet that some would gladly give up that sixth figure, to have a job that they liked going to a little more.

I guess what I am saying, is if you want to be a pilot, than be a pilot. Only you can answer for yourself whether or not it is worth it, or is a good career. There will always be at least 10%, or so, of people, in any career, who don't like it. Listen to their advice, but don't allow the nay sayers to make your decision for you. You can have just as a succesful, and prosperous of a career, as an airline pilot, as with any career. All careers have ups, and downs, so just do what you love, and money, etc., will follow.

:yeahthat: Great Post
 
Getting a non-aviation degree would be a nice option (just in case..) and then getting your ratings...

Thats what I decided to do.. the only thing is that it will take me a little bit longer to get my ratings since Im in Med-school :p... But its doable.. and its worth it.. Its all about patience! :).
 
Chipotle, I have considered investment banking, which was the most dumbass thing I could have ever thought of. This was around middle school/early high school, but I realized this was a waste of time. For one, IB is probably the most stressful job there is, "no offense to ATC." Two, you have to be Ivy League material to get in it. Three, I really don't want to work 100 hrs a week, only to eventually get burnt out and receive a pink slip at the end of the year. I would probably jump out of my office window onto Wall Street. I want to remain a social life, and not be surrounded by Ivy geeks.:)

Therefore, I researched my options and came across two final careers I would like doing... ATC and being a pilot

Being a pilot would be the best career I could ever do. It makes me think, "am I actually getting paid for this?" Although, the job security drives me absolutely crazy. Also, I head that most regional pilot never make it to the majors; I'm definitely not okay with that.

ATC is very stressful I know, but your definitely not working 100+ hrs a week, but you are dealing with thousands of lives and multi-million dollar aircraft. Although, it would not be nearly fun or exciting as it would being a pilot. Although, I do have "security," but I think the FAA is a dog, while I'm a fire hydrant. The thing I hate about ATC is that the pay is going down 40%, which is ridiculous. I think the JAA has it going on. ;)
 
Hey I need two questions backed up on here:

1. Why do most regional pilots never make it to the majors?

If this is true, or maybe a lack of work ethic by pilots, or maybe being burnt out; I will probably just go to Marine PLC, AF ROTC, or Navy BDCP to get a pilot spot. Just get my PPL and instrument, so I can kick ass in flight school and major in either finance or ATC as a backup. That would be great if I could go right from military to the majors, fogetting about civilian flight school. My only concern would be if I was assigned to helos.

2. Will the FAA straighten the ATC situation, bringing better benefits, better hours, and more pay? Haha, hate to sound greedy here... I would be very satisfied and happy if I became an ATC, but it seems like it's going down hill.
 
I look forward to going to work, but to be honest, if I were starting down this road right this second, today. . .as opposed to even 12-18 months ago - I don't think I would bother doing it.

In regards to ATC with the FAA. . .why bother? Just because you think they'll treat you better down the road? Their past does not indicate a history of treating their employees with any amount of respect. The new generation of controllers lack the ability to think as a collective group, so the overall strength of NATCA will gradually decrease as well, leaving a bunch of green controllers without the strength or heart to ask and demand better compensation or benefits.

Don't hold your breath on flying for an airline, or working metal in the sky.

Go fly for a living for a nice, small, part 91 or 135 operator and you could do very well for yourself. But flying for an airline, over the long term, will yield little success. In my humble opinion.
 
Great posts guys!! As an aspiring pilot, I can definitely say that I have learned something here! :)
 
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