Picto Job Questions

[killbilly]

Started to ask this in another thread, but didn't want to de-rail that one so I deleted and started this thread....

The aerial imaging jobs look really interesting. I know you spend a number of months on the road. I've got some specific questions about the flying....

I know a lot of the flying happens in the fall and winter months - how do you guys deal with low ceilings and/or icing? Do you have anti-ice equipment? In the Landcare thread, someone mentioned that you'd get your IFR/night during repositions....how does that work with low Wx?

Does your company have an agreement with various mechs around the country if your airplane needs repairs, or do they trust you to sort it out and keep moving? How does mx work along the way?

I've heard of this work being done in both twins and singles. What, typically, are you flying? (I guess part of this goes back to the icing question.)

 

[Finny]

Started to ask this in another thread, but didn't want to de-rail that one so I deleted and started this thread....

The aerial imaging jobs look really interesting. I know you spend a number of months on the road. I've got some specific questions about the flying....

I know a lot of the flying happens in the fall and winter months - how do you guys deal with low ceilings and/or icing? Do you have anti-ice equipment? In the Landcare thread, someone mentioned that you'd get your IFR/night during repositions....how does that work with low Wx?

Does your company have an agreement with various mechs around the country if your airplane needs repairs, or do they trust you to sort it out and keep moving? How does mx work along the way?

I've heard of this work being done in both twins and singles. What, typically, are you flying? (I guess part of this goes back to the icing question.)

Usually if you're flying IFR you are far enough south that the temps allow for you to go into the clouds. More times than not, you're not doing a repo flight because the conditions won't allow you to fly IFR.

For mx, at NSA we had checks to do every 50/100/200 hours that would be done by the local mx on the field. They'd give us the logbook endorsement that we'd mail home with the rest of our work receipts every couple weeks.

At NSA it was an all C172 fleet. Nothing fancy with most being /u birds with a handheld GPS.

It's not the most exciting job in the world, and I definitely would not do two seasons of it, but I do not regret for one second doing it. Let me or any of the other dozens of picto guys on here know if you have any other questions.

 

[bp]

90% of picto flying is in 172s of various vintages. The other 10% is done in Aztecs but I have no experience with that segment of the operation.
Sure, you can get actual and night time, typically they move you from one area to another to avoid snow and junk weather. Obviously they understand that your airplane has no equipment to deal with icing, you're just expected to move at the best opportunity that you feel you can get there safely. I think I got about 20hr of actual in one season, only got ice twice because young and stupid and learning. Just leave yourself an out.
I worked at the same shop as @Finny but for the 2014-2015 season, so same mx schedule.

 

[killbilly]

So they pretty much hand you a credit card (for airplane expenses?) and tell you "go here, fly this pattern, operate the cameras." Are you mailing or uploading the imagery on a regular basis? What altitudes are you flying when you do this stuff?

 

[bp]

So they pretty much hand you a credit card (for airplane expenses?) and tell you "go here, fly this pattern, operate the cameras." Are you mailing or uploading the imagery on a regular basis? What altitudes are you flying when you do this stuff?

Yup. Our boss always picked an airport for us to base at, once he got a project he'd tell us to go there and everything was put on a company card. You learn about flying the patterns in training before you are deployed, it's basically mowing the lawn (if you ain't a city boy you know what I mean!) with vertical and lateral tolerances that I already forget. (Think it's a couple hundred ft lateral, maybe 100 vertical? Someone else can tell you)
Altitude depends on camera equipment. Some would fly at one altitude AGL, the older setup would do 3k and maybe 9k AGL. I never went above 10k when imaging, no need for o2. Imagery gets recorded onto hardware which is FedEx'd back to home office, very simple process

 

[killbilly]

Yup. Our boss always picked an airport for us to base at, once he got a project he'd tell us to go there and everything was put on a company card. You learn about flying the patterns in training before you are deployed, it's basically mowing the lawn (if you ain't a city boy you know what I mean!) with vertical and lateral tolerances that I already forget.
Altitude depends on camera equipment. Some would fly at one altitude AGL, the older setup would do 3k and maybe 9k AGL. I never went above 10k when imaging, no need for o2. Imagery gets recorded onto hardware which is FedEx'd back to home office, very simple process

Are you basically on the road for 8-12-16 weeks solid or do you get some "rotate home" periods?

I'm trying to look a year down the line (y'know, that whole 'identify your goals' thing that people like @Derg and @hook_dupin keep telling me to do) and I'm toying with the idea of a season of picto when I'm qualified. I don't mind being on the road a while, but it would be nice to cycle home sometimes. I'm sure the wife would want to see me, y'know? Just curious about that part of the gig.

 

[Finny]

I was on the road for 6 months straight. I lucked out and spent the last 4 or so weeks at home since the projects were based out of MSP. We couldn't go home, but my wife visited me twice while I was away. That is really the only hard part about the job.

 

[bp]

Are you basically on the road for 8-12-16 weeks solid or do you get some "rotate home" periods?

I'm trying to look a year down the line (y'know, that whole 'identify your goals' thing that people like @Derg and @hook_dupin keep telling me to do) and I'm toying with the idea of a season of picto when I'm qualified. I don't mind being on the road a while, but it would be nice to cycle home sometimes. I'm sure the wife would want to see me, y'know? Just curious about that part of the gig.

I think Air America gives a week or two of vacation, all the others are 100% travel. No rotation, no scheduled time off, just wx days. When you get a stretch of good weather, you can fly 8 hours a day for two weeks straight (and then have a week off for wx when some stable high pressure hangs out with clouds and rain over your area).
It's hard for some people. Married guys do it, guy I worked with had his wife fly out to meet him a couple of times. If you think your relationship can handle it, I can't recommend it enough. Definitely one of the "those were the good old days" times in my life

 

[FullBetaRange]

I flew for Landcare during the 2011-2012 season. All of the above replies are pretty much on point. I reported for training in October and finished the season around mid-May. The fleet consisted of mostly older 172's equipped with either a Garmin 430 or a KLN90. The Aztecs went to people who had been there for a few seasons. It was feast or famine when it came to flying missions--I flew 20 days straight while working in DC, and later that season, had almost three weeks off in Bellingham, WA due to clouds. As for expenses, we had a company credit card to use for hotels (~$85), fuel, and mx. Rental cars had to go on your personal credit card, and you would be reimbursed. You were on your own for putting gas in the rental and feeding yourself.

 

[Hiboglossi]

Started to ask this in another thread, but didn't want to de-rail that one so I deleted and started this thread....

The aerial imaging jobs look really interesting. I know you spend a number of months on the road. I've got some specific questions about the flying....

I know a lot of the flying happens in the fall and winter months - how do you guys deal with low ceilings and/or icing? Do you have anti-ice equipment? In the Landcare thread, someone mentioned that you'd get your IFR/night during repositions....how does that work with low Wx?

Does your company have an agreement with various mechs around the country if your airplane needs repairs, or do they trust you to sort it out and keep moving? How does mx work along the way?

I've heard of this work being done in both twins and singles. What, typically, are you flying? (I guess part of this goes back to the icing question.)

Everyone else covered it pretty well.

You generally spend the entire season on the road, October to May. Air America offers two one-week vacations, which you choose in order of seniority. As far as I know none of the other vendors offer any time off during the season. That doesn't mean you will be flying every day as there are plenty of weather days.

Although our season is in the fall, winter and spring, we are usually down south during the winter as we typically don't shoot with snow on the ground. Right now most of our fleet at Air America is in Florida, Texas, and Mississippi. No anti-ice equipment except pitot heat (a few of our Aztecs have boots, but they are placarded inop). If you need to relocate but it's icing conditions, you just wait until it's safe to go. The company expects you to make these decisions yourself and, at least under our current chief pilot, does not pressure pilots into flying in unsafe weather. Last March I was stuck in Salina, KS for several days waiting to relocate to IND when there were low ceilings with icing conditions for a few days.

For maintenance, the way Air America does it is when a plane goes down for a 100 hour inspection, one of the company mechanics is airlined out to wherever you are on the road to perform the inspection. If any maintenance issues crop up between 100 hours, we just add it to the squawk list and the mechanic will address the squawks at the next 100 hour. If it's a "groundable" squawk, we just find a mechanic on the road to look at it. We don't really have agreements with anyone, except there are certain metropolitan areas where the company requires us to base out of a certain airport/FBO because of the maintenance options available, or because of issues we've had with a particular FBO in the past. Other than that it is generally up to us which airport and FBO to base out of.

Air America has Cessna 172s and Piper Aztecs. It's pretty much the same with the other vendors, except the Canadian vendor, First Base Solutions, uses Cessna 206s instead of Aztecs. Like I said before, no (working) anti-ice equipment. Generally, at Air America at least, you start in the 172 and may upgrade to the Aztec later on. Historically you would have to complete a season or two before upgrading, but we have added quite a few Aztecs to the fleet in the last two years and quite a few pilots have upgraded a few months or even a few weeks after being hired. Most 172s used for Picto are older (L,M, and P models, /U equipment), but at Air America we have a few 172SPs equipped with GPS in our fleet as well. However the databases have not been kept up to date so even the 172SPs are legally /U.

It definitely is an interesting job, and I have enjoyed my time doing Picto, although it is not without its drawbacks. It is a decent way to build flight time quickly, if that is what you are looking to do. About 500 hours in a season, give or take, seems to be average. I am currently in my second season at Air America, although this will likely be my last.

 

[pntbllr233]

I did 50 hours in October at AA, but in the last 35 days I've done 150+. The amount of fly varies greatly. Our planes in FL aren't flying much at all. I hate Houston, but I'm loving the flying. I did my last 100 hour 2 weeks ago and I'm already 45 hours away from my next one.

 

[ozziecat35]

I work for a bit of a less traditional Picto operator (very small shop with some franchises) so our ops are a bit different. We do thermal imaging of crops (soybeans / corn / etc) so our flying season in spring through early fall. Based out of NW Indiana, we have have all our ordered fields broken down into routes, and depending on what part of the growing season, that determines how often we fly the routes. Some full time guys, but I'm able to do it part time which is nice so I can keep my IT gig with benefits / etc. All late 60's era Pipers. 250 hours of this flying has made me a much better stick and rudder pilot. As for instrument time, none of the planes are IFR rated (or night rated for that matter...) so day vfr only. Lots of XC time though!

 

[Tommay85]

I did 50 hours in October at AA, but in the last 35 days I've done 150+. The amount of fly varies greatly. Our planes in FL aren't flying much at all. I hate Houston, but I'm loving the flying. I did my last 100 hour 2 weeks ago and I'm already 45 hours away from my next one.

There was one guy thay did 260 something in one month covering a project in western Texas. I don't think that's been beat yet. I did 230 something in Spokane. Way too many in one stint to be honest, even when you're hungry for hours.

As others have said, you can get IFR and night. Depending on where you base out of and how agressive you are, you could have IMC where you're based with good weather at the site.

AA was great when I was there. Total freedom with everything so long as the work was done and you could use a hangar for the 100 hour inspection. I understand that a lot has changed since then.

 

[pntbllr233]

There was one guy thay did 260 something in one month covering a project in western Texas. I don't think that's been beat yet. I did 230 something in Spokane. Way too many in one stint to be honest, even when you're hungry for hours.

As others have said, you can get IFR and night. Depending on where you base out of and how agressive you are, you could have IMC where you're based with good weather at the site.

AA was great when I was there. Total freedom with everything so long as the work was done and you could use a hangar for the 100 hour inspection. I understand that a lot has changed since then.

That sounds like it is now. They don't care when we fly or where we stay as long as we have access to MX for unscheduled work and the plane is secure each night. I have nothing but good things to say. The weather situation is out of our hands so the fact that we got stuck in Brownsville to start the season isn't an issue to me. Planes aren't too bad. I got spoiled with an SP and now I'm the second Log Commander of the year. Haha

 

[hook_dupin]

One clear downside to survey: You aren't flying with or for folks who will help you in the next steps of your career. That is, nobody's going to go buy a King Air and ask you to fly it and your peers are all in the same boat you are in. I can see the fun in being a twenty-something armed with a C-172 and a credit card tasked with touring the country. However, it just looks tiring to the 30-something version of me.

 

[FullBetaRange]

One clear downside to survey: You aren't flying with or for folks who will help you in the next steps of your career. That is, nobody's going to go buy a King Air and ask you to fly it and your peers are all in the same boat you are in. I can see the fun in being a twenty-something armed with a C-172 and a credit card tasked with touring the country. However, it just looks tiring to the 30-something version of me.

It depends. Towards the end of the season, many of my coworkers were leaving for the regionals and various 91/135 gigs. One of them was picked up by a King Air operator, and through some good timing and a recommendation, got me an interview shortly thereafter. A year later, we recommended another former coworker of ours, and got them brought on as well. I ended up making some great friends, who later on helped me find employment after the survey season was over.

 

[bp]

One clear downside to survey: You aren't flying with or for folks who will help you in the next steps of your career. That is, nobody's going to go buy a King Air and ask you to fly it and your peers are all in the same boat you are in. I can see the fun in being a twenty-something armed with a C-172 and a credit card tasked with touring the country. However, it just looks tiring to the 30-something version of me.

Definitely a young man's game.
Yeah, it's exhausting and a pain in the butt sometimes; but I couldn't think of a better job to cut my teeth as a commercial pilot. 325 to 900-something hours in under 7 months. It has the potential to take you through that awkward Bermuda triangle of low TT that keeps you from getting insured at better gigs. I learned a lot about myself as a person and as a pilot, and made some friends that are closer than my brothers. Wouldn't trade them for any gear slinging job in a King Air

 

[Tommay85]

One clear downside to survey: You aren't flying with or for folks who will help you in the next steps of your career. That is, nobody's going to go buy a King Air and ask you to fly it and your peers are all in the same boat you are in. I can see the fun in being a twenty-something armed with a C-172 and a credit card tasked with touring the country. However, it just looks tiring to the 30-something version of me.

The job itself is a young, single mans game for sure. Well, more fun at least.

As far as your first point; I couldn't disagree more. It depends on what you want to do of course and the industry is VASTLY different than it was even 2 years ago, let alone 5 years ago when I was trying to get out of flight instructing with 1000 hours, but aerial survey has still been the best entry level job by a very large margin for me (ex pilot factory flight instructor) and many many many others that I have seen.

No peer group progresses the same. Take a cross section of UND graduates from 2008. I know of about 4 at the legacies, the majority are still FOs at the regionals, a few dozen are captains at regionals, and a handfull are doing other things and a hand full are at the LCCs. With that in mind, a job recommendation of "not only did I work with the guy, I shared a hotel room with him for 4 months" would/should weigh A LOT higher than "I flew a trip with him". The previous has been better in my experience...

 

[epilotdream91]

Dont mean to hijack thread but, Does anyone know of any picto company hiring pilots now?

~620TT
~ 500 PIC
~ 120 dual given
~ 120 Turbine in a C208B

PMEL, CSEL, IFR rating, CFI

 

[Finny]

Nope. They hire late summer early fall. Sometimes they pick up guys mid season if someone leaves. Try to track down the phone #s of the companies to try to get on a call list of someone leaves.