braunpilot
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Is there anything you wouldn't do/pay to get back into an MU-2 on a regular basis?
Phenom 300
- Thread starter Jimmy_Norton
- Start date
Is there anything you wouldn't do/pay to get back into an MU-2 on a regular basis?
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I'm not making sweet love to you, Mike. Well, unless you have an MU-2 I don't know about.
staledog
Well-Known Member
Well, maybe not all of them...but definitely the ones I flew. These things were, like, refugees from a boneyard.
Where did you fly them anyway
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Heh. I flew for Air 1st out of Tulsa. I *think* those were the ones that you guys wound up leasing (briefly). If you think those were bad, you should have seen ACT's or Bankair's...
I agree with ricecakecm. I have several hundred hours on the 100. It was by far the most unreliable aircraft I've flown. I've flown King Airs, Beechjets, CJ1s, CJ3s, and Citation Mustangs. In six years of flying Citations, we only cancelled 1 flight due to mx. I had to cancel about half a dozen in 1.5 years of Phenom 100 flying. I've never seen so many ADs issued on an airplane in its first year of service.
staledog
Well-Known Member
Teething problems? I don't want to go overboard sticking up for the 100, but I will say it was like that for us at first too. Now, it seems like they have most of the problems ironed out. (at least with our planes...)
staledog
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we had them both from Air 1st and Bankair. I will say the Air 1st planes were in slightly better condition than the Bankair ones. At least it had an armrest with a good position for your left arm. The armrests in the Phenom suck, they are way too short. So in that regard, it's advantage MU-2.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Heh, well. I don't know how much time you spent with them, but the Air 1st mitsis, while very ugly, didn't really break. Because they were maintained by guys who knew WTF they were doing. Well, that's not quite fair...they were 30+ years old and rode hard, so they broke. But when they broke they got fixed. Right. The first time. When I was flying for Subair and the 99 broke (which it did fairly frequently...and to their credit, they fixed them right, too, whatever the cost) I'd often get picked up by a Bankair guy in a Mitsi. Those guys were incredible MU-2 pilots (better than me, I freely admit), but their airplanes were CRAP. I mean like if there wasn't something fairly obviously and significantly broken, I was shocked. The Rough Riders were dirty and ugly, but they were Solid. At least until you guys started peeling the nosewheels off trying to turn on the ice! (Yeah, I heard that story)
staledog
Well-Known Member
Heh, well. I don't know how much time you spent with them, but the Air 1st mitsis, while very ugly, didn't really break. Because they were maintained by guys who knew WTF they were doing. Well, that's not quite fair...they were 30+ years old and rode hard, so they broke. But when they broke they got fixed. Right. The first time. When I was flying for Subair and the 99 broke (which it did fairly frequently...and to their credit, they fixed them right, too, whatever the cost) I'd often get picked up by a Bankair guy in a Mitsi. Those guys were incredible MU-2 pilots (better than me, I freely admit), but their airplanes were CRAP. I mean like if there wasn't something fairly obviously and significantly broken, I was shocked. The Rough Riders were dirty and ugly, but they were Solid. At least until you guys started peeling the nosewheels off trying to turn on the ice! (Yeah, I heard that story)
True. Actually most of my 280 MU-2 hours were in the Air 1st birds, and I never really had any mechanical problems. I never heard any story about peeling off a nosewheel turning on ice, though. Only nosegear story I heard was that somebody whacked a cyote and messed up the nosegear somehow.
GUNIT
Well-Known Member
The 300 is pretty solid, but, just like any other new airplane, has its own teething problems. I haven't noted too many issues with the electronics aside from the Flap Control Units (which they are still working the bugs out of). The airplane taxis like a bat out of hell; we usually shut down a motor taxiing in after landing as you normally have to ride the breaks, and with them hot from landing they "grab" pretty heavy.
Support from Embraer is pretty good and the service center is top notch. They are still working out some of their supply chain logistics and, as such, there are some delays in getting slots to do needed SB's. The airplane really performs well (a true hotrod) and, more importantly, is very cheap to operate. The cabin is actually pretty solid I found; yes, some panels are flimsy and come off easily, but the main furnishings are as to be expected from an $8M airplane. The only cabin critique I have is that the Aft bulkhead wall is tough to take down and there are a multitude of breakers and other components that need to be accessed for MX.
Support from Embraer is pretty good and the service center is top notch. They are still working out some of their supply chain logistics and, as such, there are some delays in getting slots to do needed SB's. The airplane really performs well (a true hotrod) and, more importantly, is very cheap to operate. The cabin is actually pretty solid I found; yes, some panels are flimsy and come off easily, but the main furnishings are as to be expected from an $8M airplane. The only cabin critique I have is that the Aft bulkhead wall is tough to take down and there are a multitude of breakers and other components that need to be accessed for MX.
They would be classified as teething problems; however, they have had more teething problems than other new designs I've been around such as the Mustang. Embraer was also slow to respond to many of them. It seems that when they would send out a software patch to fix problems, it would create new problems. It was extremely frustrating, and the guys that are still flying them say they are still having problems. Very frustrating from a pilot standpoint. Here is a list of things that went wrong multiple times for me:
Brake control failures
Split flap deployment
PRSOV valve failure
Windshield anti-ice failure
Pitot-static anti-ice failure
Wing-stab de-ice failure
AHRS malfunctions
Fuel filter bypass (false messages multiple times)
Oil pressure low lights (incorrect pressure switch settings from factory)
Cabin door entry lights shorting out and melting the connector (thankfully the CB did its job)
I personally didn't have any starter-gen failures, but the company I flew for had multiple starter-gen failures. They only had a few hundred hours on them at the time of failure. Other problems I heard about were pressure controller failures. I'm sure that I'm missing a few.
Brake control failures
Split flap deployment
PRSOV valve failure
Windshield anti-ice failure
Pitot-static anti-ice failure
Wing-stab de-ice failure
AHRS malfunctions
Fuel filter bypass (false messages multiple times)
Oil pressure low lights (incorrect pressure switch settings from factory)
Cabin door entry lights shorting out and melting the connector (thankfully the CB did its job)
I personally didn't have any starter-gen failures, but the company I flew for had multiple starter-gen failures. They only had a few hundred hours on them at the time of failure. Other problems I heard about were pressure controller failures. I'm sure that I'm missing a few.
ackeight
Well-Known Member
We have seen every one of those problems with the excpeption of the shorted out door lights, but it seems like the updated parts are doing their job. I'm going to cut Embraer some slack because this is their first true business jet and they have nothing to work off of like Citation. With many decades of designing and upgrading business jets citation does have an edge on embraer. I have heard some horror stories of citations however. A friend of mine had a CJ3 that had so many problems including Dual fadec failure they traded it in for a lear 60XR. Sometimes you just get a black sheep.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
It wouldn't require anything breaking for me to trade a CJ for a 60...
ackeight
Well-Known Member
True that. Except the extra few million. but that's chump change
I flew one of the early CJ3s. They did have FADEC issues. Cessna eventually issued operators computers to reset the FADECS. The FADEC was the only issue we had with the CJ3, and was only a minor annoyance after we got the computer. Cessna eventually fixed the problem.
As far as the airstair door lights shorting out on the Phenom 100, I recently saw an AD issued over the problem, so it must have been a more common problem then I originally thought.
As far as the airstair door lights shorting out on the Phenom 100, I recently saw an AD issued over the problem, so it must have been a more common problem then I originally thought.
ackeight
Well-Known Member
They had to do an inflight shutdown so it was more than a minor annoyance for them. The owners did not like that too much even after they fixed it and dumped the airplane. I guess every airplane has their gremlins
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Well...the upside is if you ever have to slum it at a regional, you'll be ready for the BS you see there!
ackeight
Well-Known Member
The engine was stuck at a certain power setting not allowing them to land so they had to shut down and fly it single engine. I have also heard really good things about the cj3/4. It just seems like all the bad things about airplanes get stuck in peoples heads making them think they are disasters.