Personal Minimums.

ppragman said:
Lots of good stuff.
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Now this is gonna surprise you, but i agree completely with ppragman and here's why. Your first time, your boys are all like, "Joe do it man, she'll be hot after a few more beers." Now initially your like, "WHAT?!" cause she may not be real attractive and below your personal minimum. However, these are your buds, they'd never steer you wrong. Never. So you keep pounding beers, next thing you know it's just about dawn and your in a warm bed naked and funky. Your friends talked you into a serious win, because lets face it, no one likes the guy that goes out and mins are too high.

I'm not saying go all 3585, but take a chance, go below your mins, you'll thank yourself in the morning.

Girls? Right?
 
Basically, what i'm getting at is, think for yourself, and don't be arbitrary, each situation is different. If you're adjusting your mins for each flight, then awesome, but else, don't let people think for you.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Now this is gonna surprise you, but i agree completely with ppragman and here's why. Your first time, your boys are all like, "Joe do it man, she'll be hot after a few more beers." Now initially your like, "WHAT?!" cause she may not be real attractive and below your personal minimum. However, these are your buds, they'd never steer you wrong. Never. So you keep pounding beers, next thing you know it's just about dawn and your in a warm bed naked and funky. Your friends talked you into a serious win, because lets face it, no one likes the guy that goes out and mins are too high.

I'm not saying go all 3585, but take a chance, go below your mins, you'll thank yourself in the morning.

Girls? Right?
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:clap:

Basically, what i'm getting at is, think for yourself, and don't be arbitrary, each situation is different. If you're adjusting your mins for each flight, then awesome, but else, don't let people think for you.
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Agreed. Have personal minimums, but change them for each situation. An ILS to minimums on a calm, dry runway in an airplane that you have 1000 hours in is a lot different than doing it in an airplane that you have 5 hours in, with a 30 knot crosswind and contaminated runway with ice, and go/no-go decisions should be made based on all of the factors that change with each flight.
 
I'll keep it short on this one as this seems to be a carry over from another thread. Not all pilots are created equal. Pilot A and pilot B sit at a table with weather and flight plan laid out on the table. Pilot A has been flying for the most part every day for the past year in all kinds of weather. Pilot B just did his/her bi-annual and IPC/re-current for IFR (whatever you want to call it, 6 mos. or IPC). The flight laid out before them shows weather down to minimums. Pilot A having done this just the other day and many time previously weighs the options and elects to go. Pilot B not feeling proficient enough despite being current and qualified elects to sit it out. Now how pilot B came to the conclusion that they didn't want to go may or may not come down to some arbitrary number added to the minimums whether it's a conscious or sub-conscious thought. That's besides the point. The point is they used good judgment in determining if they were capable of making the flight. The machine could make the flight. The airport is capable of allowing the machine to make the flight. As we all know, however, neither of these mean a damn thing if the pilot screws it up and this is where personal minimums come from.

There is nothing wrong with adding 500', which essentially ensures you break out with plenty of time to get your bearings. After getting comfortable breaking out 700 AGL, move it down another 100 or 200. Eventually you're down to minimums. Personal minimums are an exercise in good discipline.

Okay not so short.
 
Ok Steve, I think we're on the same page. Saying the same thing in different ways.

SteveC said:
The thing that I like about setting personal minimums for low experience (or non-current) pilots is that it takes the pressure off when the time comes to make the decision whether to do a flight or not. If you're taking the wife and kids to see the grandparents I'd much rather not see the inexperienced pilot talk himself into a situation that he shouldn't. Setting minimums before takes the pressure off the decision making process just when he needs it most.
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I found an even better solution to this situation than setting minimums. Tell the pax before a trip even starts that they might need to arrange alternate transportation. If the expectations are set in advance, there's no pressure in the moment.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Now this is gonna surprise you, but i agree completely with ppragman and here's why. Your first time, your boys are all like, "Joe do it man, she'll be hot after a few more beers." Now initially your like, "WHAT?!" cause she may not be real attractive and below your personal minimum. However, these are your buds, they'd never steer you wrong. Never. So you keep pounding beers, next thing you know it's just about dawn and your in a warm bed naked and funky. Your friends talked you into a serious win, because lets face it, no one likes the guy that goes out and mins are too high.

I'm not saying go all 3585, but take a chance, go below your mins, you'll thank yourself in the morning.

Girls? Right?
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Good story, bro. :)
 
To expand a bit and maybe take the thread where it wasn't meant to go, you're essentially saying the 250 hour wonder pilot should then be fine for flying the airlines. I've been lurking enough to know how people feel about freshly minted commercial pilots getting hired by the airlines. Yeah, they're qualified to fly to minimums but do you want them to with upwards 100 souls chasing behind them into the murk?
 
averettpilot said:
To expand a bit and maybe take the thread where it wasn't meant to go, you're essentially saying the 250 hour wonder pilot should then be fine for flying the airlines. I've been lurking enough to know how people feel about freshly minted commercial pilots getting hired by the airlines. Yeah, they're qualified to fly to minimums but do you want them to with upwards 100 souls chasing behind them into the murk?
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Big difference flying a 2500 pound airplane to minimums at 60 to 90 knots vs. an airliner weighing 47,000+ pounds coming down final in thte mid 140's.
 
True and I don't claim to have flown anything that big or fast but essentially it boils down to making the needles do what you want them to do, yes? Maybe a simplistic way to look at it. Anyhow, I think setting your own minimums and then lowering them incrementally as you become comfortable is a good thing. Don't see why someone would get all bent out of shape about it.
 
averettpilot said:
True and I don't claim to have flown anything that big or fast but essentially it boils down to making the needles do what you want them to do, yes? Maybe a simplistic way to look at it. Anyhow, I think setting your own minimums and then lowering them incrementally as you become comfortable is a good thing. Don't see why someone would get all bent out of shape about it.
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Yep, too simplistic...The needles are just the grunt task!

That's why you have to look at the whole situation like what I said in my earlier post.
 
A few points, "personal mins" are bad if

you have "personal minimums" that are based on nothing more than what some guy at the airport told you.

You aren't trying to push your mins lower in a orderly progressive manner

You think just because a flight is past your "personal mins" that it is unsafe.


"Personal mins" are a very good thing if,

You use them to enforce some self discipline into your decision making.

You use them to build your confidence level by pushing yourself a little at a time.

You want to keep some extra safety margin in your private flying.


As with everything in flying and life, your attitude is everything.
 
MikeD said:
My personal minimums are all set below published minima.
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You're dangerous. *chomp*.

I think the idea of personal minimums is, in it's essence, a good one for people with low levels of overall or recent experience. For example, it would be perfectly legal for me to hop in a Cherokee here in Juneau and blast off into 1 SM and 500 OVC as long as I'm 91 and not carrying pax. Would I do it? No way! Now, on the other hand, to agree with Pat, I don't really have a hard number set in my head under which I would NOT go. When I was a new CFI, I did, but those personal minima quickly became useless as my personal minimums became less than company minimums and therefore irrelevant. As for the idea of adding X feet to DA/MDA, I've never heard of that in the context of personal minimums and think it's retarded. YMMV.
 
ppragman said:
Basically, what i'm getting at is, think for yourself, and don't be arbitrary, each situation is different. If you're adjusting your mins for each flight, then awesome, but else, don't let people think for you.
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Ok, ill buy that.

Thats why we call it PERSONAL minimums :)
 
Crockrocket94 said:
PPrag,
What is wrong with a newer IFR pilot, or even a seasoned pilot who hasnt flown in IMC in a while, not wanting to fly into a 200' with 1/2SM weather conditions when they are operating single pilot in their own airplane?

I don't see why you are disturbed over someone not wanting to operate beyond their safety window.

I mean, if a FO for a 135 company or whathave you or a CA has "personal minimums" thats a different story I feel if its for work in a 121 or 135 environment.
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Ya, if it's just some guy flying his own airplane(weekend warrior) or whatever, who cares. If you fly for a living, to be honest, you better be able to fly an approach to minimums.
 
z987k said:
Ya, if it's just some guy flying his own airplane(weekend warrior) or whatever, who cares. If you fly for a living, to be honest, you better be able to fly an approach to minimums.
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Even pro pilots have "personal minimums" but we typically call it our "pucker factor." We can do a single engine CAT III hand flown ILS in the 737NG with the HUD. The question you've got to ask yourself if you ever find yourself doing that is "why am I in this situation?"
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Even pro pilots have "personal minimums" but we typically call it our "pucker factor." We can do a single engine CAT III hand flown ILS in the 737NG with the HUD. The question you've got to ask yourself if you ever find yourself doing that is "why am I in this situation?"
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That's straight baller. Thankfully they don't let us fly that low. Some computer programmer from 1984 does it for us.
 
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