PC12 purchase...need lots of hours fast
- Thread starter NW_Pilot
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NW_Pilot
Well-Known Member
Well, talked to the chief pilot at western and he shot me down right out of the gate but I explained the situation these guys are proposing and after a few hours he told me I should go for it if these guys are going to foot the bill. I think his "quick kill" was due to the fact I AM so inexperienced but after we talked a bit he seemed to come around after detailing some of my experiences flying. He outlined a few options and gave me some great advice on negotiating a "deal" with the owners as far as my loyalty to them goes. Yadda, yadda, now I approach the owners with a few options and go from there.:banghead:
USMC-SSGT
Well-Known Member
why dont you just get your ratings in a manageable amount of time, instruct and get some real world experience and have a good time doing it. This industry is to volatile to get all excited about a job 18 months from now. Who knows where you will be 18 months from now and if a pilatus is even where you will want to be. Step back a few, say what happens happens and have a great time and enjoy the ride.
NW_Pilot
Well-Known Member
I'm going to compile a list of "scenarios" I have come up with 3 solid situations and one last ditch effort as follows from the mouths of 3 seasoned pilots i've asked to chime in on the matter:
1. Buy a 180 or 185 gain "stick & rudder" time and do a leaseback to the local flight school and I get unlimited use of the plane minus fuel and they get a plane that can be used for thier personal biz as well and then sell it when the time comes. (From the Chief Pilot of Western)
2. Sign me up for a "Big name" flight school and pre-pay my tuition for 5-6 months and I go to work for the flight school until the Pilatus arrives hopefully gaining enough experience to get insured. (From the buddy with 15,000hrs)
3. Look for an experienced pilot that is only interested in building time with a short term commitment and possibly find another if and when the first one leaves, each of them "instructing me" while they build thier hours. (From the owners)
4. Find a pilot for them and tell them to get me the hell out of the aviation loop and let's go build something. (From me)
All parties involved said, "if they're willing to foot the bill that I should take full advantage of the oppurtunity" and I agree. I am only a few hrs (like 10-15) from my IR and by the time I finish that I should have the hours needed for my CSEL, then it's just a matter of getting my multi time and any other ratings squared away.
I have no desire to fly for an airline and prolly couldn't pass a thorough background check anyway so that's not really an option. This is really the only situation i'd be interested in besides flying my own bird. I've tried to "shoot myself down" 3 or 4 times and each time they come up with a new idea.
Is the Chief Pilot, Tom Halvorson from the Flight Video Production's PC-12 video? They showcase the Pilatus there.
Oh, I like option 3.
Help me please to understand this. . .for the military, how many hours average do those pilot have before they transition to jets? Does anyone have an idea?
By this, I mean not necessarily the fighters, but the C-5s or C-17s. How much time TT do these individuals average?
Mr.Maximus
New Member
Read your posts, and quite honestly alot of this seems a bit "out there". Are you willing to bet your future on a group of guys that "party like rockstars and do things they don't want others to know about"? In todays aviation world, I have a hard time believing that someone that is purchasing a 4 million dollar aircraft would want (and nothing personal) a 1,500 hour pilot flying them around in their aircraft. Again, nothing personal - but 1,500 hours is not that much time. Then there's the insurance. While a PC-12 is a fairly simplistic aircraft - it's still a turbine and insurance premiums are going to be through the roof for a 1,500 hour pilot. What's to say if they hire a qualified Captain to mentor you, they're not going to say see ya later to you. Why would someone hire a qualified person to train an unqualified person - then what, fire the original qualified individual? Seems pretty far fetched.
If you decide this is all on the up and up, and are willing to bet the next couple of years of your life on it - then I would do this. Finish your instrument and commercial asap. Get your hours up so you can get on with a regional that flys turboprops - especially something with PT-6's (I think that's what the PC12 has). The Beech 1900 comes to mind. This would accomplish a couple of things. First, you'll build up your hours rapidly. Second, you'll get some real world practical experience in the system. Third, you'll get intimate with the PT-6, which will help you to transition to the PC12 and most likely would be of benefit regarding insurance. Fourth, if things don't work out with flying the PC12 (that's a long time from the now) - you'll have gained the experience to be marketable in the aviation industry - whether it's corporate, airline, freight or whatever.
Good luck, think things through before you stake your future on such a singular game plan.
Max
If you decide this is all on the up and up, and are willing to bet the next couple of years of your life on it - then I would do this. Finish your instrument and commercial asap. Get your hours up so you can get on with a regional that flys turboprops - especially something with PT-6's (I think that's what the PC12 has). The Beech 1900 comes to mind. This would accomplish a couple of things. First, you'll build up your hours rapidly. Second, you'll get some real world practical experience in the system. Third, you'll get intimate with the PT-6, which will help you to transition to the PC12 and most likely would be of benefit regarding insurance. Fourth, if things don't work out with flying the PC12 (that's a long time from the now) - you'll have gained the experience to be marketable in the aviation industry - whether it's corporate, airline, freight or whatever.
Good luck, think things through before you stake your future on such a singular game plan.
Max
As it is good to remain skeptical of the "too good to be true" edit, believe me when I say there are more than a few individuals out there with as the cliche' goes, "money to burn" that wouldn't mind spottin' him that time simply because it's nothing but a toy to them. Surprisingly enough, I see it frequently around the Houston area with many of those "heavy rollers" who just do it. . .because they can. They own King Air 90/200; they have their glorified "air chauffeurs" that truly take them, on a whim, to various places. . .just because. Oh yes. . .they also "bring in" entertainment as well.
Yep, they are responsible, educated, well-off professionals who work hard and play hard. The pay/benefits are superb simply because you are kinda like their hired help, and they wish to keep you around to ensure that continuity. . .and truly, for them. . .money doesn't matter. They'll write it off somewhere.
I should be so lucky.
Mr.Maximus
New Member
I realize there are many out there with money to burn, in fact alot of the 135 charter industry is based on that. My whole point is to have a Plan B in mind in the above situation - great things that appear out of nowhere disappear very quickly. It would be a shame for that individual to spend the next 19 months prepping for a one option plan without something to fall back on if it falls through.
Max
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
You have a lot of options, most sound good to me.
First and foremost, is this a career you want to embark on? If so, get your commercial single and multi engine land with instrument land as fast as you can. If you decide to buy a plane, do that, but get the ball rolling. Sounds like you have time on your side.
Maybe you could get your time up and go work for 6 months for Alpah Flying in the NE. I'm sure a few hundred hours of time in the PC12 will help with insurance.
I'd also like to piggy back on what the others said, who says this group won't dip out on you in a year or so? Why do they want you? And you say they're going to help you get going, what does that entail? Where will you be flying for these guys?
Good luck
First and foremost, is this a career you want to embark on? If so, get your commercial single and multi engine land with instrument land as fast as you can. If you decide to buy a plane, do that, but get the ball rolling. Sounds like you have time on your side.
Maybe you could get your time up and go work for 6 months for Alpah Flying in the NE. I'm sure a few hundred hours of time in the PC12 will help with insurance.
I'd also like to piggy back on what the others said, who says this group won't dip out on you in a year or so? Why do they want you? And you say they're going to help you get going, what does that entail? Where will you be flying for these guys?
Good luck
:yeahthat: To the original poster, This is some very good advise and if it were me , i would certainly think about this. Good luck to you.. FLY SAFE T.C.
NW_Pilot
Well-Known Member
Maximus, I kind of agree this is "out there" but whats wrong with training on thier dime? If they're going to pay for my training there's no reason I shouldn't take full advantage of it. I've been a carpenter for 23 years and do have something very solid to fall back on if they bail out. The worst thing that could happen at this point is i'd have to go back to construction with some more time in my logbook. I'll be the first to admit i'm not qualified "yet" to fly this one but if they're paying...i'm flying. If they dump me for someone else, I still had fun and i'm not out anything.
These are a good bunch of guys that need some tax writeoffs I guess. Why they bought this particular plane, I dunno. Why they want me, I dunno. My sister manages thier finances for them and has for a few years now and they're on the level. They recently promoted her to a executive position and pay her almost $100k per year. I might be nothing more than a chauffer to them but on the other hand they have treated my sister very, very well over the last few years and I have benefitted from thier genorosity as well, like $80k they loaned her to get her house gutted and remodeled that I was paid nicely for last year.
Every scenario posted has been right from thier mouths,not mine and i've told them there's more qualified people for the job and what they're asking of me is a BIGTIME commitment. It's like playing highschool football and going straight to the NFL as a starting QB. They're crazy but not stupid.
What if's? What if I continue to post, update my progress from time to time, and wind up 2 or 3 years from now flying this thing? What if they decide to drop me like a hot tater? Either way it's a win win situation for me...i'll either be piloting a sweet plane or pounding nails for the rest of my days. Either way, i'm not selling my tools...i'll always be a carpenter.
"stuckingfk" They pay for my training...thats the only way I can or will do this cuz I can't afford it, period. All they're asking of me is for a time commitment and some loyalty which they should expect given this oppurtunity, especially if they're paying for it. Where would I fly them? Wherever they want to go...i've heard them mention Alaska to Central America and anyplace west of the Mississippi. They're hunters, fisherman, outdoors types and have homes in Montana, Texas, Arizona, Cabo, Costa Rica so I guess that's where i'll be flying them.
These are a good bunch of guys that need some tax writeoffs I guess. Why they bought this particular plane, I dunno. Why they want me, I dunno. My sister manages thier finances for them and has for a few years now and they're on the level. They recently promoted her to a executive position and pay her almost $100k per year. I might be nothing more than a chauffer to them but on the other hand they have treated my sister very, very well over the last few years and I have benefitted from thier genorosity as well, like $80k they loaned her to get her house gutted and remodeled that I was paid nicely for last year.
Every scenario posted has been right from thier mouths,not mine and i've told them there's more qualified people for the job and what they're asking of me is a BIGTIME commitment. It's like playing highschool football and going straight to the NFL as a starting QB. They're crazy but not stupid.
What if's? What if I continue to post, update my progress from time to time, and wind up 2 or 3 years from now flying this thing? What if they decide to drop me like a hot tater? Either way it's a win win situation for me...i'll either be piloting a sweet plane or pounding nails for the rest of my days. Either way, i'm not selling my tools...i'll always be a carpenter.
"stuckingfk" They pay for my training...thats the only way I can or will do this cuz I can't afford it, period. All they're asking of me is for a time commitment and some loyalty which they should expect given this oppurtunity, especially if they're paying for it. Where would I fly them? Wherever they want to go...i've heard them mention Alaska to Central America and anyplace west of the Mississippi. They're hunters, fisherman, outdoors types and have homes in Montana, Texas, Arizona, Cabo, Costa Rica so I guess that's where i'll be flying them.
I read all the posts, and I see no one disagreeing with you about the wonderful opportunity you have. Like most of us, it's always our role to play that "devil's advocate" realizing many of the significant "cons" can become reality. Wouldn't be right if we didn't address it. By no means am I pessimistic about the opportunity you have, but if it goes to hell in a hand basket, you're prepped for the alternative.
NW_Pilot
Well-Known Member
It's cool, I asked for some opinions and that's just what I got and I appreciate everyones point of view. This has all happened pretty fast and my head is spinning trying to figure out the best way to go about it. Two weeks ago I was a 200 hr private pilot doing my construction thing and these guys call me up with this "oppurtunity" so i'm just trying to come up with options, present them, and go from there. I certainly don't want to let it pass me by, i'm stoked about the possibility of flying on a regular basis again, but i'm also aware that the bottom could fall out of this and i'll still be pounding nails a year from now.
Again, thanks for EVERYONE'S input. I'm all ears and have considered the major undertaking and potential risk that will go along with this. Like going from a $70k per yr career to a $10-15k per yr job for the next 2 yrs. Selling off the majority of my crap to be able to be transplantable if the need arises.
Mr.Maximus
New Member
NW Pilot,
In no way was I advocating to not go for it - just to do so with eyes wide open and a Plan B. If you have the backup in place as it seems like you do - then definately go for it. It doesn't sound like you have much to lose and everything to gain from it if things go as scripted. I fly around alot of well healed individuals for a living in a Challenger 604 and have found it to be by in large a phenomenal "job". Best of luck to you - keep us posted with how things are going. Take care.
Max
In no way was I advocating to not go for it - just to do so with eyes wide open and a Plan B. If you have the backup in place as it seems like you do - then definately go for it. It doesn't sound like you have much to lose and everything to gain from it if things go as scripted. I fly around alot of well healed individuals for a living in a Challenger 604 and have found it to be by in large a phenomenal "job". Best of luck to you - keep us posted with how things are going. Take care.
Max
You guys are just pissed cuz it didn't happen to you. J/K, you all seem like a cool bunch and I hope oppurtunities far greater than this come your way :rawk:
Don't even think for a second I'm not envious, for believe me when I say I am. I've been provided plenty of opportunities to train in Meridians, Socatas, and King Airs because of my association with those current CFI's who fly for those cavalier types - who again are alive and well in Houston. I've seen each of them transition up in aircraft from King Airs to Citations with my riding right along with them.
Keep doing what you're doing! I'm hanging around these guys hoping for the same "hookup!"
NW_Pilot
Well-Known Member
NW Pilot,
In no way was I advocating to not go for it - just to do so with eyes wide open and a Plan B. If you have the backup in place as it seems like you do - then definately go for it. It doesn't sound like you have much to lose and everything to gain from it if things go as scripted. I fly around alot of well healed individuals for a living in a Challenger 604 and have found it to be by in large a phenomenal "job". Best of luck to you - keep us posted with how things are going. Take care.
Max
I'm not bashing dude...I want the criticism good or bad, it helps me make an informed decision. I'm pickin up what your laying down and I do have serious doubts this will happen but it continues to unfold so i'm just ridin' the wave. Blue skies and tailwinds to everyone...i'll keep you posted.
NW_Pilot...out!
NW_Pilot
Well-Known Member
Well folks, I think (99.9%) it's official! The Pilatus job is coming through and after some serious discussion and the conversation I had this morning with the owners I think the final plan is going to be to buy a used PC12 and put it to work and i'll train in the bird i'll eventually be flying rather than going to an academy.:rawk:
Now for the next potential problem, where to find a pilatus pilot willing to train me until I have the hours and skills needed to fly this forcken awesome machine??? I think I have someone lined up but he already has a fulltime gig and i'm not so sure he's going to be willing do it, I can't even ask him till he gets back from OSH.
Now for the next potential problem, where to find a pilatus pilot willing to train me until I have the hours and skills needed to fly this forcken awesome machine??? I think I have someone lined up but he already has a fulltime gig and i'm not so sure he's going to be willing do it, I can't even ask him till he gets back from OSH.
Pépé le Pilot
Well-Known Member
The people you buy the PC12 from should have a list of pilots. I know that's how I got most of my private gigs, through a Beechcraft dealer...
NW_Pilot
Well-Known Member
Looks like my friend @ Horizon is up for the "challenge" of taking me and the PC12 on but can only commit to 3 days a week which is fine with me but will it work with the schedule the owners have in mind, that i'm not sure of. If they do buy a used PC12 and fly it for a year, how would 3 or 400 hours of turbine time look in the eyes of the insurance co? Regardless of how long it takes I think the oppurtunity for both of us is fantastic.
"Horizon guy" just finished a 4yr degree in aviation mgmt.(?) at Embry Riddle and has a ton of good things to bring to the table besides the obvious experience he already has and can only help get this thing up and running and i'm starting to get really excited as this is looking more and more like a done deal. The only problem is keeping a lid on it, can't really tell all the hot chicks about my new job until I have the "keys to the castle".
There is still no plane in the hanger yet but at least they have the hanger. I may have to go buy a little puddle jumper just to have something to put in it until the "Big Bird" arrives. Waiting for something like this really sucks! I WANT TO FLY NOW!!!
"Horizon guy" just finished a 4yr degree in aviation mgmt.(?) at Embry Riddle and has a ton of good things to bring to the table besides the obvious experience he already has and can only help get this thing up and running and i'm starting to get really excited as this is looking more and more like a done deal. The only problem is keeping a lid on it, can't really tell all the hot chicks about my new job until I have the "keys to the castle".
There is still no plane in the hanger yet but at least they have the hanger. I may have to go buy a little puddle jumper just to have something to put in it until the "Big Bird" arrives. Waiting for something like this really sucks! I WANT TO FLY NOW!!!