Paying your dues???

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
Southern Airways Exp. Is hiring, and I'm strongly considering applying. They're similar to say Boutique Air. The mins. are 500 tt. with CSEL and instrument rating. Flying a Caravan sic. I check all the boxes. I've always heard that this shop was good for low-time pilots. You build hours fast and get A LOT of experience into airports big and small and flying approaches/arrivals. And of course, weather. They have bases all over the south and the Midwest, with their biggest at DFW.

The problem. The pay. $12 per block hours the first 6 months. $18-21 per block hours afterwards w/ a 57 hr. guarantee. So maybe $10k first year and maybe $800 a month.

Yikes!

Sounds like they're low balling, low time guys in the current climate, because they can.

All that aside, opinions? Good, bad. Pass.
 
Yeah I did that math......it was mental math so maybe I messed it up......but what I came up with doesn't feed most people, at least not 3 meals a day, unless we are talking the forced intermittent fasting/ramen diet. If you have any college or flight school debt, doubly so.
 
Southern Airways Exp. Is hiring, and I'm strongly considering applying. They're similar to say Boutique Air. The mins. are 500 tt. with CSEL and instrument rating. Flying a Caravan sic. I check all the boxes. I've always heard that this shop was good for low-time pilots. You build hours fast and get A LOT of experience into airports big and small and flying approaches/arrivals. And of course, weather. They have bases all over the south and the Midwest, with their biggest at DFW.

The problem. The pay. $12 per block hours the first 6 months. $18-21 per block hours afterwards w/ a 57 hr. guarantee. So maybe $10k first year and maybe $800 a month.

Yikes!

Sounds like they're low balling, low time guys in the current climate, because they can.

All that aside, opinions? Good, bad. Pass.


IMO, I'd do it.


What base would you get? That kinda money would be a lot easier to swallow being based in PIT as opposed to Hawaii.
 
Maybe I don't understand, is the revenue they're making from that flying less than at other places??
 
@Maximilian_Jenius it's time to have a no BS discussion with yourself about your options, flight instructing, and what you are worth.

I totally get that you don't want to instruct, and while I feel like pilots who haven't instructed are missing a pretty key part of being a PIC, sometimes they manage to pick up those skills elsewhere. I'd again advise you to look in to places that you can get your CFI rating, and then get paid to instruct (and make "ok") money.

If your goal is getting to the regionals as fast as possible, what you do right now doesn't matter. It's all about getting to 1500.

Taking a job sitting in the right seat of a Caravan will (depending on the company) probably build your CRM skills and two pilot cockpit skills. It may or may not build up your decision making and IFR skills (which is what really matters right now). You've just got to ask yourself if doing it for a stupidly low amount of pay is worth it. It sounds like you are willing to move to pretty much anywhere for a while, which is good. That opens up your options for finding better options that the lowest bottom feeder out there.

That said, the Southern Airways Express guys that I know that fly for Mokulele are pretty happy, minus the pay.

Remember... getting to the shiny RJ quickly is fine. Taking shortcuts is less fine.
 
Of course you would.

Why has this guy not been blocked here yet, @Derg


Did you have something legitimate to add? One complaint I received is I haven't been contributing/giving advice, and here when I do, this happens.:rolleyes:

BobDduck said:
"Remember... getting to the shiny RJ quickly is fine. Taking shortcuts is less fine."

I guess I don't see how it's a shortcut. It's an airline right? He meets the minimums for Southern and they are hiring. Anyone can apply. Swayne Martin did the same, Mokulele right seat Caravan to ATP mins and then off to Envoy. If Max can afford to take the financial hit then it is an option. IIRC, he isn't exactly a young buck in this game so an accelerated option to get to 1,500 hrs while flying for Southern could very well help him in the short and long run.
 
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Out here most of the CFI's take home $40-60/hr after the schools cut (more in some cases), so I'm sure there are much higher paying CFI jobs around if you keep looking.
 
That’s how I started out. I think I made 16k or so in 2015 flying right seat in the Van. I actually made more a paycheck as a customer service agent for that same airline. I also got a lot of jokes about being an FO on a caravan from other pilots as well lol.


I dunno man, may be worth it looking into getting the CFI. The first six months will be brutal with 12 an hour and a 57hr guarantee. That won’t even be 550 a month take home, that’s pretty horrible. You’re worth more than that imo. But saying that makes me feel like a hypocrite as that’s what I did. I also had a spouse to help pay bills after she laughed at my paychecks though, so different situations may work better than others.

I will say flying where I did, helped me learn the IFR ropes quickly. That made regional training a breeze, all the same stuff just moving faster over the ground.

I bet as soon as regionals hire again Boutique will scoop you up, just sayin
 
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I know nothing about this company or their operations so I can't give specific advise. I will say this though. Guarantee does not always equal compensation. How many people on this site actually stop at min guarantee at their airlines every month? Most posts I read are people making 100+ hours while likely only having a contractual 70 something hour guarantee. So that said:

- What is your current experience? Particularly, do you have PIC time that isn't with an instructor sitting next to you?
- If you are offered and accept this position, what is your path to getting multi time?
- Does Southern have reserve? You are significantly more likely to be paid min guarantee on reserve.
- Do you have any information on how much current employees are actually flying? If it's true that "you build your hours fast" then you're obviously flying more than 57 hours per month.
- Where will you be based? As @Cherokee_Cruiser points out, low pay is much easier to swallow in some areas vs others.
- Are you still in a relationship and will your significant other move with you? Is that person employed in a way that will help with your low salary?

A lot of people have been pushing you toward getting your CFI for a long time. With your life experience, you would likely be valuable in that role, but I understand not wanting to go that route. I instructed for a year and while I went in excited about it, I discovered very quickly that I hated it. I ended up taking a job as a camera operator for a survey company in a city I had never been to just get out of it. With my current experience, I would love instructing, just as I have loved mentoring lower time pilots at my last few jobs. But at that particular point in my career, it wasn't right for me. Just as it isn't the right path for lots of other people.
 
No multi, will have that in the fall though.

Actually, that outfit picked up an EAS route from Boutique that goes from NW NE(the state) to DEN. For the PIC (that’s the only post I saw) it’s a 4/4 schedule and in a 200. Hopefully, it’s really a 1300 (not a typo), but I think those are all in Africa or on some South American dirt road.

So do all these aircraft have their autopilots removed? If you want to talk about logging time, let’s pull the pen on that grenade. Do you (or anybody) know if they have A062 (SIC PDP)?
 
@Maximilian_Jenius it's time to have a no BS discussion with yourself about your options, flight instructing, and what you are worth.

I totally get that you don't want to instruct, and while I feel like pilots who haven't instructed are missing a pretty key part of being a PIC, sometimes they manage to pick up those skills elsewhere. I'd again advise you to look in to places that you can get your CFI rating, and then get paid to instruct (and make "ok") money.

If your goal is getting to the regionals as fast as possible, what you do right now doesn't matter. It's all about getting to 1500.

Taking a job sitting in the right seat of a Caravan will (depending on the company) probably build your CRM skills and two pilot cockpit skills. It may or may not build up your decision making and IFR skills (which is what really matters right now). You've just got to ask yourself if doing it for a stupidly low amount of pay is worth it. It sounds like you are willing to move to pretty much anywhere for a while, which is good. That opens up your options for finding better options that the lowest bottom feeder out there.

That said, the Southern Airways Express guys that I know that fly for Mokulele are pretty happy, minus the pay.

Remember... getting to the shiny RJ quickly is fine. Taking shortcuts is less fine.

Realistically, I just don't think CFI'ing is in the cards for me.

I work all the time, like all the time, just to be able to pay my astronomical private student loan for flight school every month. Pay all my bills after that, save cash to build a decent nest egg/save for my multi and still have spending cash and money to go flying to stay current. I average between 130-146 hours every pay period, with only one day off a week. Every Saturday. I make a decent wage $22.50 an hour at my crazy job, which isn't bad, especially with the $3 differential and $2 on top of that Fri-Sun. But Uncle Sam butt rapes me on every check, because I'm single and have zero dependents. I'm one of his favorite victims every two weeks. What I'm getting at is that I have no time to study for a new rating. Also most of the flight school's here don't want you to work while you're training. They want you to have a singular focus and you have to be at the airport studying for 6 hours, even when you're not flying. Financially, I can't do that.

I feel that COVID really set me back, it set everyone back. Had COVID not happened, I probably would have been starting at a regional this fall. I actually had a job right out of training flying a 172 in UT. doing aerial survey. Well, I should say that I interviewed, was offered the job then had it rescinded shortly afterwards due to COVID, before I could start training. I feel that I only have 4-5 yrs. at my age to build the necessary hours, to make it to a regional and then get to the next level LCC/ULCC, ACMI or (doubtful) a legacy and still have 15-20 yrs. left to make a good living, not having to continue to work as hard as I am now, and always have, while continuing saving for retirement. So, I feel especially under the gun. Oh man, if I can get a do over and be 18-20 yrs. old again not be dealing with all the emotional, identity and traumatic • that I was dealing with from 18-32. . . What's the going rate for selling your soul these days? Ha!

Put bluntly, this place won't work for me if we're being honest. $500-800 alone won't even pay my flight school loan or my portion of my responsibility for the mortgage every month. I can't put all of our financial responsibility on Jason's back, that's not fair. So, this is kind of a non-starter. I thought that maybe if I saved up enough money to help fill in the gaps financially, that this job doesn't pay. I *might*, *might* be able to work. But I doubt that, that would work. I saved up $25k before moving to UT. and it didn't really help all that much either, that was gone in less than a year. And I still had to end up going back to work up there. Living is expensive, even within your means.

I still wanted to get a feel for everyone's opinion to help make a decision. I don't know exactly what I need to do, or better yet what I can do. But I know that the fog is quickly lifting in the industry and I need to be ready in the best position possible to land a time building job out of the gate. Especially if this career is finally going to take off for me and I didn't just waste $65k to be a weekend warrior, still working psych and renting a 172 and flying around the pattern. Ooof!
 
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With most of the majors hiring again, things will pick up and entry level positions will be easier to come by. Just do aerial survey, fly jumpers, etc. There will be plenty of respectable jobs soon.
 
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