Paying down debt vs. investing

SteveC said:
The issue that you keep skipping over is the large number of people that need help making changes in the way that they approach and handle money. That is where Ramsey gives good advice.

The people that follow Ramsey and learn how to get out of debt, even if it is in an inefficient manner, are even further ahead of those that can't make the psychological adjustments and get to retirement with out of sight credit card debt, leased cars, and homes with multiple mortgages.
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If you can't make the psychological adjustments, then you're just going to end up failing. It's no different than people who go on fad diets. They lose 10 pounds in two weeks, but because their method wasn't sustainable or supported by the science, they gain back that weight and then some. The only way to become successful at managing money is to control your emotions and use the math. Period.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
If you can't make the psychological adjustments, then you're just going to end up failing. It's no different than people who go on fad diets. They lose 10 pounds in two weeks, but because their method wasn't sustainable or supported by the science, they gain back that weight and then some.
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Is this what happened with you?
 
There typically is a direct correlation between winners at the top in the financial game and extreme narcissicim and sociopathy. Typically because they have absolute thinking i.e. black or white thinking. The ends always justifies the means. Extreme greed and a total disregard for others and lack of empathy.

But if someone slaps me in the face and I don't respond, that is an example of controlling my emotions, and not sociopathy. Which is why I commented to clarify, but yeah I knew what you meant.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
If you can't make the psychological adjustments, then you're just going to end up failing. It's no different than people who go on fad diets. They lose 10 pounds in two weeks, but because their method wasn't sustainable or supported by the science, they gain back that weight and then some. The only way to become successful at managing money is to control your emotions and use the math. Period.
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And sometimes people need help learning how to make the psychological adjustments needed.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
There typically is a direct correlation between winners at the top in the financial game and extreme narcissicim and sociopathy. Typically because they have absolute thinking i.e. black or white thinking. The ends always justifies the means. Extreme greed and a total disregard for others and lack of empathy.

But if someone slaps me in the face and I don't respond, that is an example of controlling my emotions, and not sociopathy. Which is why I commented to clarify, but yeah I knew what you meant.
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Yeah - this is the scariest thing in our system for distributing resources and power to one another. It rewards those who can put aside their humanity to make decisions about their future. Ultimately I suspect it'll be our undoing as a species.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Here is an actual model, to keep us all honest. This assumes a $100,000 mortgage, with either and extra $400/month going to mortgage principle, or going into a ROTH IRA investing only in an S&P 500 Index fund, dividends reinvested. I assume a worst case of the S&P returning only a 2% dividend yield, and an average case of the S&P having a total return of 9% (average over that last 90 years or so). I also assume a marginal 28% tax rate, with cumulative savings on the interest deduction. I also assume the tax savings aren't invested (but should be).
....
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You didn't account for the increase in home value. Varies but 2-3% is possible.
 
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