Paying down debt vs. investing

I agree, don't mix the sauces. Dave is a simple for the non informed or the average person, I would even say based on the numbers I see, 80% of Americans . I just said it for a startng point, not that he is the bible. The rest of the people took it like I was preaching Jesus in a synagogue . My side business is not so much debt, but cash flow. I usually help many get financing , as for a small business, especially the ones i specialize in, they have weak balance sheets. So I help them get free cash, pay down debt and then they can expand (invest with free cash). And the debt we get is at a much lower rate, as the banks are less scared. But the people above are investors in the market, I believe for me and my family and what I have been through, I want no debt, period. I know I will be debt free in 13 years. About when my oldest leaves for college. Not saying I don't invest, my company has a great 401k. And I know each month that I pay off my house and student loans, I am closer to not having to worry about it. I know many people that were asset rich and cash poor when this thing feel apart a few years ago, and there is a balance. But when the cash drys up and you have to start hitting those investments, maybe an IRA. Any gain you had will go to pay the mortgage and other life expenses. I just was really surprised at some of the responses, just the quick to judge and offend. Would hate to see what happens if the wife's meat loaf is a little dry or the kid spills their milk.
 
That's why I couldn't live a life of crime.

I'd probably roll up to rob someone and end up asking them what's in the bag because I smelled delicious tacos and ask them where they got them. And probably throw in my own suggestion on where to find such delicious delicacies.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Your grammar alone is enough to make me worry. Your insistence that math is not indeed math is the icing on the cake.
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It is sad, this phenomenon, of arguments against what has been proved to be true -- still continues. It happens in my day job all the time, "experts" that know better, and sell people on something with no basis in fact. When challenged, it is always the same misdirection "numbers lie," "challenge your thinking," "failure is not an option..." Get rich quick schemes, miracle diets, absurd promises from product vendors, the list goes on, and they all seem to use the same playbook.

When you hear "In my opinion," "Let's agree to disagree," "I think that X," "I believe that it is Y." ... Red flags should go off. Questions of numbers, or dollars and cents, always have an answer based on sound reasoning, with repeatable evidence. None of us tolerate ignoring numbers from the books in an airplane cockpit, I'm not sure why it is that people allow themselves to be fooled so easily elsewhere.

People that publish reasonable material are generally easy to spot. They don't become defensive when errors in their logic are pointed out. Quite the contrary, it is usually greeted with thanks, or a cash reward for finding errors in most texts.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
It is sad, this phenomenon, of arguments against what has been proved to be true -- still continues. It happens in my day job all the time, "experts" that know better, and sell people on something with no basis in fact. When challenged, it is always the same misdirection "numbers lie," "challenge your thinking," "failure is not an option..." Get rich quick schemes, miracle diets, absurd promises from product vendors, the list goes on, and they all seem to use the same playbook.

When you hear "In my opinion," "Let's agree to disagree," "I think that X," "I believe that it is Y." ... Red flags should go off. Questions of numbers, or dollars and cents, always have an answer based on sound reasoning, with repeatable evidence. None of us tolerate ignoring numbers from the books in an airplane cockpit, I'm not sure why it is that people allow themselves to be fooled so easily elsewhere.

People that publish reasonable material are generally easy to spot. They don't become defensive when errors in their logic are pointed out. Quite the contrary, it is usually greeted with thanks, or a cash reward for finding errors in most texts.
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Creationists, anti-vaxxers, horoscopes, climate change deniers... There's a sucker born every minute, and another ready to exploit their ignorance. Both are a part of human nature.
 
Don't you loose all the tax breaks when you pay off your house early? Especially if you're single, make 100K, and live in the great state of California?
 
scoobs said:
Don't you loose all the tax breaks when you pay off your house early? Especially if you're single, make 100K, and live in the great state of California?
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I think in many cases the money you save with the tax break is cancelled by the additional interest you pay to the bank. My (limited) understanding is that the real reason to not pay off is that you can get a significantly better rate of return investing the money than what you're paying in interest.
 
Thanks, i guess my thinking was you get crushed in taxes but hopefully you make it back owning the house.
 
scoobs said:
Thanks, i guess my thinking was you get crushed in taxes but hopefully you make it back owning the house.
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It'll help some if you itemize all your deductions. I think the PMI deduction was extended this year by Obama today. I can't find the news on it again.
 
UAL747400 said:
*Captain stock picks* :)

There are at least two members on here though that I think are at least knowledgeable enough to give solid advice on where to get information.
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So you've stated that these two members don't really know jack about investments but they both have a good knowledge base to tell us where we should go to look for information about investments? Did I follow you correctly on this post?
These guys might work for Wikipedia or Google then........these are great places to look for information. :confused2:
 
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drunkenbeagle said:
28 cents on the dollar is still better than zero cents on the dollar. Please provide some numbers to show a scenario where it is bad advice.
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When that money can be funneled into investments? Pretty simple math.

Even though the rates are still incredibly low you are giving someone 4-6% when you could be gaining 4-10% in investing. There's no reason for hanging onto the money for a small tax break. That's assuming someone didn't get a jumbo on a house that was way out of their income bracket.

I should clarify as well that the best way to treat a mortgage is to do two monthly payments and a bit more than you would normally. It's amazing how many years the twice monthly payments shaves off a 30 year.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I should clarify as well that the best way to treat a mortgage is to do two monthly payments and a bit more than you would normally. It's amazing how many years the twice monthly payments shaves off a 30 year.
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At 4% or less on a 30 year mortgage, you do not want to pay off the loan any faster than necessary. Figuring in the tax break on interest, it is really like 3% you are paying. Plenty of funds or stocks that pay a dividend better than that....
 
drunkenbeagle said:
At 4% or less on a 30 year mortgage, you do not want to pay off the loan any faster than necessary. Figuring in the tax break on interest, it is really like 3% you are paying. Plenty of funds or stocks that pay a dividend better than that....
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Which is why you would want to be paying your money to a fund or stock instead of a banker. Even if you pay your minimum payment but break it up to two monthly payments can shave off a year or more from the term you are telling me you wouldn't do that to save a year of mortgage payments?
 
Dave Ramsey is really good at the psychology of handling money for those that need the assistance (probably a majority, actually).

[/non sequitur]
 
SteveC said:
Dave Ramsey is really good at the psychology of handling money for those that need the assistance (probably a majority, actually).

[/non sequitur]
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Yeah it's not my thing but I've seen the program work for family members. It really breaks things down into bite sized bits, after a year or two they've got enough money that all the sudden investments look possible and they get used to strict budgeting so they don't grow into their income.

It's not a one size fits all method, but if you have people or are a person who can't tell you where there money goes each month or tread water finacially, it can really make a difference.
 
dustoff17 said:
So you've stated that these two members don't really know jack about investments but they both have a good knowledge base to tell us where we should go to look for information about investments? Did I follow you correctly on this post?
These guys might work for Wikipedia or Google then........these are great places to look for information. :confused2:
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I don't think you did. I haven't seen the portfolios of @ATN_Pilot or @dasleben or a few others that I feel have offered useful insight, but the book list alone in another thread is bang on and their insights have lead to better "google" searches. No, you can't just Google "how to make money", sorry.

Again, sorry, paying off low interest debt is idiotic. Which is recommended to not do, not only in this thread, but also in every rationally written literature out there. In other words Ramsey thinking is idiotic. Money doesn't care how you feel. You can make hundreds of thousands if not millions if you take emotion out of it
 
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