Part Time Airline Pilots

ATN_Pilot said:
Yeah, again, I agree with @GypsyPilot. During our SLI fiasco, the guys who didn't need the money were willing to stand up for themselves, and the guys who had four kids and a stay-at-home wife who needed 90 hours a month to get by were willing to do ANYTHING to avoid even the slightest bit of risk. Being desperate for a pay check will turn a man into a coward. Having a backup plan is how to really have leverage.
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In my experience, guys who are flying for fun and not the paycheck are more willing to take the company line because, "Gosh darnit, I'm having so much fun and the company is great for letting me do it. I have no incentive to make this a better place because I can leave whenever I want."

More importantly, if management could get away with part time pilots, they would be all over it like Walmart to lower their employee costs. Just think, they wouldn't have to pay health care costs or cover retirement benefits. This is not a good idea to encourage.
 
Cptnchia said:
In my experience, guys who are flying for fun and not the paycheck are more willing to take the company line because, "Gosh darnit, I'm having so much fun and the company is great for letting me do it. I have no incentive to make this a better place because I can leave whenever I want."
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I would think you could get both types: the type you describe above, as well as the opposite person who would say "I don't need to put up with this crap management is pulling to try and change X or Y, because I don't need this job. So they can piss off in trying to screw around with me......or the others, for that matter."

I'd like to think there'd be those types too.

More importantly, if management could get away with part time pilots, they would be all over it like Walmart to lower their employee costs. Just think, they wouldn't have to pay health care costs or cover retirement benefits. This is not a good idea to encourage.
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Agreed.
 
Cptnchia said:
In my experience, guys who are flying for fun and not the paycheck are more willing to take the company line because, "Gosh darnit, I'm having so much fun and the company is great for letting me do it. I have no incentive to make this a better place because I can leave whenever I want."

More importantly, if management could get away with part time pilots, they would be all over it like Walmart to lower their employee costs. Just think, they wouldn't have to pay health care costs or cover retirement benefits. This is not a good idea to encourage.
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I gotta say I have to say I've had a similar experience on a number of occasions.
 
Cptnchia said:
In my experience, guys who are flying for fun and not the paycheck are more willing to take the company line because, "Gosh darnit, I'm having so much fun and the company is great for letting me do it. I have no incentive to make this a better place because I can leave whenever I want."
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I suppose our experiences have just been different, then.

More importantly, if management could get away with part time pilots, they would be all over it like Walmart to lower their employee costs. Just think, they wouldn't have to pay health care costs or cover retirement benefits. This is not a good idea to encourage.
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On this, I agree. The Mesaba MEC actually propose part-time pilots, either during bankruptcy 1 or bankruptcy 2 (can't remember which, as the years are starting to run together now), and I was pretty adamantly opposed to the idea. Any benefits are outweighed greatly by the detriments to the profession. I'm all for work rules that allow pilots who want to fly to fly as much as possible, and pilots who want to sit around doing nothing to do so to the greatest extent possible, but they all need to be full-time employees.
 
Generally, the guys that are really ecstatic to tell you about how they don't really need to work are only looking for some ego-massaging.


A quick "OMG, your wife earns more than you and you're an amazing person on top of that?" or "You are an amazing investor, tell me all about your Iraqi Dinar investments you bought from the back of Popular Mechanics" will shut them up and I can get back to the latest episode of AMC's "Turn".
 
Just catching up on this thread. Here is the thing about being a part time pilot. You could put rules around it. Here are some possibilities.

1.) You get a seniority number but are forbidden from upgrading to Captain unless you go full time.
2.) You are on perpetual union probation, that means you can't vote
3.) You receive no benefits such as health care or family travel, no 401k
4.) You allow x amount of part time per full time pilot
5.) Part timers only bid what's left over regardless of seniority
6.) Part time is not reserve
 
propsync said:
Just catching up on this thread. Here is the thing about being a part time pilot. You could put rules around it. Here are some possibilities.

1.) You get a seniority number but are forbidden from upgrading to Captain unless you go full time.
2.) You are on perpetual union probation, that means you can't vote
3.) You receive no benefits such as health care or family travel, no 401k
4.) You allow x amount of part time per full time pilot
5.) Part timers only bid what's left over regardless of seniority
6.) Part time is not reserve
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That all well and good. However, I am unwilling to support any waste of negotiating capital in order to secure work rules for someone who can't even be bothered to commit fully to the job.
 
propsync said:
Just catching up on this thread. Here is the thing about being a part time pilot. You could put rules around it. Here are some possibilities.

1.) You get a seniority number but are forbidden from upgrading to Captain unless you go full time.
2.) You are on perpetual union probation, that means you can't vote
3.) You receive no benefits such as health care or family travel, no 401k
4.) You allow x amount of part time per full time pilot
5.) Part timers only bid what's left over regardless of seniority
6.) Part time is not reserve
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This would simply result in the airline hiring all FOs as "part time" and then looking the other way when they pick up trips and end up working 90 hours every month with no benefits.

And the "perpetual union probation" would be a huge benefit for the company because it would make it much easier for them to fire you at any time.
 
propsync said:
Just catching up on this thread. Here is the thing about being a part time pilot. You could put rules around it. Here are some possibilities.

1.) You get a seniority number but are forbidden from upgrading to Captain unless you go full time.
2.) You are on perpetual union probation, that means you can't vote
3.) You receive no benefits such as health care or family travel, no 401k
4.) You allow x amount of part time per full time pilot
5.) Part timers only bid what's left over regardless of seniority
6.) Part time is not reserve
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I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but that's just not going to happen. Sorry.
 
propsync said:
Just catching up on this thread. Here is the thing about being a part time pilot. You could put rules around it. Here are some possibilities.

1.) You get a seniority number but are forbidden from upgrading to Captain unless you go full time.
2.) You are on perpetual union probation, that means you can't vote
3.) You receive no benefits such as health care or family travel, no 401k
4.) You allow x amount of part time per full time pilot
5.) Part timers only bid what's left over regardless of seniority
6.) Part time is not reserve
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No way.

The investment in training that the Company has to make for pilots is not justifiable unless that pilot works full-time.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yeah, I'm sure. :rolleyes:
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Somehow I knew I could count on a condescending answer from you.
I'm 50 YO. How old are you?
I was an officer in the USMC. where did you serve?
I was a teamster roofer in high school, and worked as a tool pusher on an oil rig in college. Been labor a lot longer than you.
I paid for all my flight time part 61 and worked as a CFI, meat missile driver, and any other flying job I could finagle to build time.
I worked in management for a finance company and was a stock broker before flying for a living. I also was a flight ops manager for an ACMI while furloughed.

Contrary to your opinion of yourself, you aren't the most talented, smartest, or experienced person on this site.
 
That post, and you claim that I gave the condescending answer? Classic! :bounce:

Sorry, but no, you don't have the experience that I do in labor/management relations in the airline industry. If I'm looking for an answer on how things work in the Corps, or how to install roofing material, I'll give a holler, though!
 
Right, because you and Seggy are the only people who held a position in ALPA. I, however choose not to make it known I did too. I've also started, ran and sold a welding business, so yes, I know about managing employees.

I'm sure you are a nice guy, people in ALPA who know you tell me so. You sometimes just come across the wrong way. I'm sure I do too. Just don't start believing your own press.
 
Derg said:
I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but that's just not going to happen. Sorry.
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I know it's hard to see, but I think it's going to happen at some regionals. There just isn't much of a choice. We are now just at the leading edge of the problem. The problem doesn't reach it's peak for another 6 years. In 6 years, 1/3 of all airline pilots in the United States will retire.
 
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