Part 61 Time Building "Simulated Instrument"

A

abnpx

Well-Known Member
Good Evening,

I have a question regarding time building and logging simulated instrument time.

I'm wrapping up my private and planning a little ahead with a good friend of mine as far as logging our 50 hour PIC time in order to begin our Instrument Rating.

- Is it LEGAL for him to log simulated instrument (under the hood) while obviously I'm the safety pilot?

-Also we will be doing long flights to try and gain as much XC experience as possible here in Florida.

Will it be legal if we were to both log XC PIC time?

My other thing was basically I'm assuming if we were to fly 250nm one way and 250 back obviously then he would do the first leg "Under the hood" while I'm his safety pilot. On the return leg it would be the other way around. Is this ok?


Thanks for your help guys.
 
- Is it LEGAL for him to log simulated instrument (under the hood) while obviously I'm the safety pilot? Yes, and you can log PIC time as well

-Also we will be doing long flights to try and gain as much XC experience as possible here in Florida.

Will it be legal if we were to both log XC PIC time? Yes, you are PIC there as well
 
My other thing was basically I'm assuming if we were to fly 250nm one way and 250 back obviously then he would do the first leg "Under the hood" while I'm his safety pilot. On the return leg it would be the other way around. Is this ok? Yes you log simulated instrument one way and he logs SI the other
 
Hey Scott,

Thanks Alot for your prompt response. I just want to do things by the book. Please check INBOX.
 
scott_l said:
- Is it LEGAL for him to log simulated instrument (under the hood) while obviously I'm the safety pilot? Yes, and you can log PIC time as well

-Also we will be doing long flights to try and gain as much XC experience as possible here in Florida.

Will it be legal if we were to both log XC PIC time? Yes, you are PIC there as well
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Actually, no (to both logging the cross country time).
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...interpretations/data/interps/2009/Gebhart.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/2009/Hilliard.pdf
"Section 61.65(d) contemplates that only the pilot conducting the entire flight,
including takeoff, landing, and en route flight, as a required flight crewmember may log
cross-country flight time. Because a safety pilot does not conduct the entire flight, a person
acting as a safety pilot for a portion of the flight may not log any cross-country flight time
for the flight."
 
Since you're both "buddying up" for this, why don't each of you log a PIC landing at each end of the trip?
 
since the "safety pilot" isn't required for takeoff nor landing (because the main pilot has to you know... see outside eliminating the use for a safety pilot), the minute he takes off the foggles/hood, the safety pilot is no longer a required crewmember from what I've learned so therefore he can't log the takeoff or the landing, so if he never took off and he never landed, it was never XC
 
elmetal said:
since the "safety pilot" isn't required for takeoff nor landing (because the main pilot has to you know... see outside eliminating the use for a safety pilot), the minute he takes off the foggles/hood, the safety pilot is no longer a required crewmember from what I've learned so therefore he can't log the takeoff or the landing, so if he never took off and he never landed, it was never XC
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Exactly, thats why only the pilot flying can log the XC. Doesn't mean though that you cant swap and the non-flying pilot fly the return leg, takeoff to landing. Then both get max flight time and also half the XC time.
 
gray area workaround I've devised (though never used... just thought it up actually)

Pilot 1 takesoff from KVNY, Pilot 2 has not taken off and is therefore not yet eligible for XC.
Pilot 2 Lands plane at KVNY and takes off again. Now both pilots have taken off from KVNY and not landed yet (Pilot 2 landed but has taken off again)

Fly to KXXX destination airport, Pilot 2 lands, completes his XC and takes off again, circle around, Pilot 1 lands and completes his XC
 
Wouldn't bet on it elmetal. This is an interpretation that follows policy and the policy is to only permit one pilot to log cross country time countable toward the next certificate or rating.

Another example is the two guys who fly a 3 hour leg. One does the takeoff; the other takes over flying duties at the halfway point and then lends. Neither gets to log cross country.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/2009/Hilliard.pdf

Yet another follow-up to the Gebhart letter:

Glenn: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretations/data/interps/2009/Louis Glenn.pdf

"Workarounds" is "gray areas" that are there because of policy considerations tend not to work too well.
 
Matt13C said:
That won't allow both to log XC.
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I can virtually guarantee that nosehair was referring to the training/learning benefit to the pilots in both making landings, especially the one at the distant airport, not to the exercise one gets by writing numbers on a page with a beer in one's hand.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I can virtually guarantee that nosehair was referring to the training/learning benefit to the pilots in both making landings, especially the one at the distant airport, not to the exercise one gets by writing numbers on a page with a beer in one's hand.
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Ok. Wasn't trying to be combative, just wanted to clarify for those who may not have read this threads 50 predecessors and be as well versed in the subject. It came off as him suggesting a way for both to log XC.
 
I wasn't really taking you to task. The "beer in your hand" line is one I hope nosehair would appreciate in the context of this particular discussion - that there are things more important than whether you can log the time.
 
But in this case, nosehair did not read closely enough the 'official interpretation', so that I did not know that the specific act of both making a landing had been 'officially' ruled out. o_O
 
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