part 141 vs. part 61

I think it depends on the person on which school is a best fit for them. One person might like the "I get to go where ever I want and do what ever I want to do".. and another might like the structured class setting and lesson plans. Sure people have their arguments about which one is better than the other, but come on.. you can only take that so far. It depends on the instructor, student, school, etc.. There are many factors that contribute to one school being better than the other.. not just because it's 91 or 141.

I attended, and then instructed at a 141 school.. does that make be a better instructor? No.. but I enjoyed being in a classroom setting, having a time table, taking stage checks just to know that I was on the right track. It was the right fit for me.

And for the record.. I did not have to wear a tie and uniform, or call our students "sky cadets", or anything like that. Don't compare the large 141 schools (UND, Riddle, etc..) to every other 141 school out there. They are not all the same.
 
The FEDs are trying to add to their bill that in order to sit in a part 121 flight deck in the future you will have to go through a part 141 curriculum. May want to look further into that.
 
Whitebread said:
The FEDs are trying to add to their bill that in order to sit in a part 121 flight deck in the future you will have to go through a part 141 curriculum. May want to look further into that.
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Hogwash and other such comments...mostly because I'm a diehard 61 guy. Some of the folks with 141 certificates don't know the first thing about air carrier operations...
 
Whitebread said:
The FEDs are trying to add to their bill that in order to sit in a part 121 flight deck in the future you will have to go through a part 141 curriculum. May want to look further into that.
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Are you talking about certain academy guys getting to by-pass the 1500 hr rule?
Otherwise tell us what bill and where you heard or read about this.
 
yes indeed, i have not heard of this bill. although i have heard that ground time 141 will be considered into factor as part of the new 1500 hr requirement for 121. im sure each 61 and 141 have advantages and disadvantages just like anything. also riddle is part 142, which i guess is similar to 141 but special.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Hogwash and other such comments...mostly because I'm a diehard 61 guy. Some of the folks with 141 certificates don't know the first thing about air carrier operations...
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Hogwash indeed. Low time pilots, insurance companies are really the ones dictating where you will work. HP single and taildragger time is probably worth more to you than anything else at that point. (not trolling here, just being honest )
 
Douglas said:
Are you talking about certain academy guys getting to by-pass the 1500 hr rule?
Otherwise tell us what bill and where you heard or read about this.
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OK wait. I am not on the stance of promoting a 141 school. I was talking with a FED out at Lunken airport a few weeks ago. He is on the committee that is going to change crew rest requirements for part 121 ops. He is also working with the bill that will require the ATP mins to get hired for part 121. He says that the difficult part right now is determining where the experience is. We all know that 141 schools and 4 year universities would love to be exempt to an extent, however he says that will not go through. He says that they are working on an equation that will exchange experience.. So say you have a guy that has 500 hours in a king air and is in a 4 year program, then the 500 hours may count for 750 of the TT required to hit the 1500. Whereas a guy flying traffic watch or instructing would be required to get the full 1500 hours.

So basically they are looking for a formula that takes into consideration actual flying experience in the flight levels and at high speeds, not advanced classroom or simulator training.

I didn't see anything official yet, but I've heard mentioned a few times from different DPEs that they are looking to require more standardization during flight training which isn't present part 61 if you desire a career part 121. So as of now it's just floating out there. I would definitely follow it though if you are one of the ones trying to decide between part 61 and 141. It's not about which is better or who likes which one more. It's going to be about where you want to wind up in the end. Flying for fun, or flying for the airlines.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Hogwash indeed. Low time pilots, insurance companies are really the ones dictating where you will work. HP single and taildragger time is probably worth more to you than anything else at that point. (not trolling here, just being honest )
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There was nothing trollish about that :) Actually, the insurance business is really driving flight training these days (with varying degrees of success). I don't know how to feel about that, either.

Can a 250-hour pilot be safe in a jet? Possibly, although I want the captain to be a grizzled senior pilot. I think safety is as much a function of a pilot's attitudes and deep-seated beliefs as it is a function of experience.
 
Douglas said:
Well no offense if you know the guy personally, but if X shop is in the market of hiring green CFIs, not hiring an instructor due to 190 hrs vs 250 is flat dumb.
What in the world would that matter in the world of instruction. There may have been other factors.

By and large, I've never seen it matter. A green CFI is green.
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I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying it happens a lot more than most might think. I also never understood getting less hours for the same amount of money........... or nearly so.
 
I understand you went and worked at the big name places and that might be true there, but everything thing I've seen points the other way. If I had somebody finish in 190 hours I would think they would be the son of aviation.

I don't know how fewer hours equals same money, unless you are talking big name "we want your money academy and you will be my sky cadet," places.

Ultimately it is buyer beware. 141 or 61 isn't going to be a magic bullet, the school and luck of the draw instructor truly rule. 141 is structure, that is simple all it is, a known product.
 
Douglas said:
141 is structure, that is simple all it is, a known product.
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In theroy, and like you said, people need to do their research to make sure. I am neither for or against 141. But a 141 school needs to be researched better IMHO. TCO's can make or break a 141 school(and your wallet) depending on how they are written.
 
well i didnt save the article and i cant find it, plus its off the topic, but i know they did figure in accredited universities and ground instruction as time that can be used in the 1500 hours but havent yet figured the equation. if i did a bit of research i could maybe find it again, but for the sake of argument i agree with it and agree its not about quantity so much as quality of hours and instruction. 1500 in a crop duster = 1500 flight instructing in my opinion. nothing against crop dusting
 
gymhaus said:
1500 in a crop duster = 1500 flight instructing in my opinion. nothing against crop dusting
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Oh, your probably gonna get beat up for that. Someone is going to have you meet them by the bike racks for sure! I'd have to say that crop dusting is probably some of the most demanding flying I have seen (only seen, not done). But dodging wires, and getting the chemical spread in a very specfic area has got to be demanding.


:popcorn:
 
mshunter said:
Oh, your probably gonna get beat up for that. Someone is going to have you meet them by the bike racks for sure! I'd have to say that crop dusting is probably some of the most demanding flying I have seen (only seen, not done). But dodging wires, and getting the chemical spread in a very specfic area has got to be demanding.


:popcorn:
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Demanding? Sure, but how transferable to the 121 world?
 
poser765 said:
Demanding? Sure, but how transferable to the 121 world?
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Not everyone wants to go 121. Some 135 operators would love to have a guy with 2500hrs dusting crops. Or take it to the CBP. There are many uses. I think about a guy who has been dusting as a guy who is going to keep SA damn good in an emergency.
 
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