part 141 vs part 61 CFI signoffs

matt152

Well-Known Member
I am about to signoff one of my instrument students for the IRA practical. He is in the 141 program. I don't know if I actually need to give him a signoff saying he is good to go for the practical.

I was looking at the advisory circular with the recommended signoff language and it references the part 61 requirements. He does not meet part 61 because he was trained under 141.

Maybe my understanding is incorrect, but does he just need to present his 141 graduation certificate to the examiner? Does that count as the signoff that he is competent to pass the practical test?
 
You still need to sign an endorsement for him to take the practical test. It should look something like this:

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has graduated from the part 141 instrument rating airplane course. I have determined he/she is prepared for the Instrument—(airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift) practical test.

I think it may have an FAR reference as well...I don't have one of ours handy to look at. We just have pre-made ones that we sign and stick in the logbook. AC61-65E has everything about endorsements, but kind of skims over part 141 stuff.

The 141 grad. certificate does NOT replace your signoff. It DOES replace all of the part 61 flight time requirements-in other words, 50 hrs PIC x-country, 40 hours hood time, or whatever it is.
 
For our 141 school, we sign each student off per AC61-65E. Exactly as it is written referring to even the 61 parts. Like Roger, Roger said, the grad certificate covers all of the hour requirements for 61 training. But as far as the endorsements go, our DPE accepts the endorsements from the AC. When in doubt, just ask the examiner. Instructors can't know everything!:crazy:
 
Just a heads up if you haven't signed anybody off for their practical test yet.

This is straight from AC61-65E:

Flight proficiency/practical test: sections 61.103(f), 61.107(b), and 61.109.
I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required training in accordance with
sections 61.107 and 61.109. I have determined he/she is prepared for the (name the practical
test).
/s/ [date] J. J. Jones 987654321CFI Exp. 12-31-05



It is missing 61.39 (6). Don't forget to throw that one in there. I had my first student returned to me for not being properly endorsed.
"BUT I followed the AC to the letter." - Doesn't count for a lot of DPEs.
 
It is missing 61.39 (6). Don't forget to throw that one in there. I had my first student returned to me for not being properly endorsed.
"BUT I followed the AC to the letter." - Doesn't count for a lot of DPEs.

Not to say your DPE was wrong, but did they ever notice 61.109 (4)??

(4) 3 hours of flight training in preparation for the practical test in a single-engine airplane, which must have been performed within 60 days preceding the date of the test; and

The AC endorsement covers ALL of 61.109

Edit: Ok, so I guess I was mainly paying attention to the training within 60 days! :rolleyes::banghead: I still don't understand why the DPE wanted that additional 61.39(6). Seems stupid to me seeing that the AC covers everything stated under 61.39(6), AND you would think the DPE would have to go by the AC, since after all, it is issued by the FAA and we all know that they are always right!
 
Yeah, I wrote it using AC 61.65D and then it changed to "E" and still no update from the FAA.
 
That's why I'm glad that we had someone who knew the 141 regs very well go through and create endorsement stickers. Sign 'em and stick 'em.
 
Thanks for all the replies here. I used this:

I certify that [name] has received the required training of 14 CFR Part 141 Appendix C. I have determined that he is prepared for the Instrument--Airplane practical test.

The examiner was fine with it.

And my student passed. :)

 
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