Part 141 Instrument Rating Minimums

R

rajsingh

New Member
I just found out today that if I train for instrument rating under Part 141, the 50 hours of PIC cross country hours is waived and the minimum hours of training will be 35 hours.

I was interested in knowing the national average of obtaining the instrument rating. Generally for private pilots, it takes around 60 hours or so. But what's the usual number of hours for obtaining the instrument rating.

A part 141 school quoted me around 7000 in a cessna 172R. I believe the plane is 139, instructor at 60 and simulator at 80 an hour. But I just wanted to get an idea of how much more I should really have, based on the average hours it takes to obtain the instrument rating.
 
I don't know about 141 specifically, but for this area (FL) both the plane and instructor rates seem high. I don't know about the sim.
 
No, but my intention was to ask around for the average hours it takes for an instrument rating. Anybody has any idea?
 
rajsingh said:
No, but my intention was to ask around for the average hours it takes for an instrument rating. Anybody has any idea?
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Mine was exactly the minimums - I think I had something like 40.1 instrument, 50.5 XC, and exactly 15 hours dual.

Assuming you study, there is no reason it should take any longer.

Most of it is book knowledge, very little of it has to do with flying.
 
35 hours is the bare minimum but it can be done if you study your material thoroughly and go to each and every lesson prepared. Most of the training for the instrument rating is just book knowledge and preparation for the 250nm cross-country. Remember you can credit up to 40% (or 50% if the simulator is FAR 141.41(a) qualified) of your simulator time towards the 35hr flight requirement.

The price the flight school quoted you is about right if you finish in the minimum time. If not, you will need more. Always budget a little more than you expect to spend.
 
Trust me, there's no need to rush the instrument rating. You're probably better off getting those 50-hours of CC time under your belt before taking it on.

I'm a strong believer that 1.0 hours of experience under 141 is equivalent to 1.0 hours of experience under part 61. The 141 book learning may be better, but experience is consistent.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Trust me, there's no need to rush the instrument rating. You're probably better off getting those 50-hours of CC time under your belt before taking it on.
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Try and do some approaches at both ends of the XC's too. VFR X/C with flight following and a practice approach at the end is 99% the same as being IFR. The more time you spend flying "in the system," the easier your training will go.

You can't log the approaches without a safety pilot, but even by yourself - I'd fly them anyway.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Trust me, there's no need to rush the instrument rating. You're probably better off getting those 50-hours of CC time under your belt before taking it on.

I'm a strong believer that 1.0 hours of experience under 141 is equivalent to 1.0 hours of experience under part 61. The 141 book learning may be better, but experience is consistent.
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Yup, if only 50 hrs of XC in the NYC area didn't cost a small fortune! The cheapest rate I've been able to find for just a ratted out C152 is $99!
 
DeuceOfAces said:
Yup, if only 50 hrs of XC in the NYC area didn't cost a small fortune! The cheapest rate I've been able to find for just a ratted out C152 is $99!
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Considering you need 40 hours instrument anyway, the XC time isn't a big deal. Just fly at least 51 miles every time you are working in the 40 instrument hours.
 
I did mine between 35-40 hours. 141.

Most of our students do theirs 35-45, 141; but average about 50 for private, 141.

Then they can do commercial x-c under IFR, when others are grounded. (For this reason we like to do instrument 141)

If you are just looking at training for the instrument rating there will not be much difference in end total time, if any at all.
 
mojo6911 said:
It is easily doable for even a pilot of average skill level if they put in the time and practice at home.
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Just realized, a bunch of us saying "mostly book learning" isn't going to help you with knowing what to study. So here goes:

The ASA Oral Exam Guide. You want to know everything in here inside out. This is probably the only oral exam guide you will ever use again, it will come in handy for IPCs in the future anyway.

IFR - the "instrument flight" part is easy (you had to do that to get a PPL anyway). The "rules" part is where most of the learning comes in. Flying GA, the checkride is probably the last time you will ever end up flying a hold. Clearance limits? In the real world, you are almost always cleared to the airport you are going to. There are tons of rules to learn, that 99% of the time you will never use.

The FAA's instrument flying handbook has most of what you need to know (free).

Weather. Kind of obvious, if you are going to fly in it, you need to know a bit more about it. Expect lots of weather questions on the oral.

Approaches. Be able to brief any approach plate in 30 seconds. This is easy to practice at home. Remember to set CDI (nav/GPS)!

Flying. This is the easy part. Don't get behind the airplane. Keep it trimmed for what you need. Don't try to chase anything - smooth and stabilized is more important.

My opinion -- try to do the training both in glass and older six-pack aircraft. It might take a few more hours, but you really should be comfortable flying either.
 
141 = sales gimick. Most people can't get it done in the time 141 allots. Get yourself an instructor to teach you the basics of inst flying (BAI). Get a saftey pilot, fly x-countries under the hood with them, and shoot VFR practice approaches at each end. Get to around 35-40 hrs of x-country time and go back to your instructor for the rest of the time.

When I was at a 141 school instructing, only one person ever got ther PPL in the 35hrs. His dad owned an Arrow, and he showed up knowing just about everthing he needed to pass his checkride. From the first lesson, I was only there to make things legal. I said "show me slow flight" and he'd do PTS slow flight. I'd say give me a steep turn, and he'd do a perfect steep turn. The only area he had trouble with was emergencies. It wasn't because he coulden't handle them, it was because the Arrow and the 172 are layed out completely different. He had to develop the muscle memory of where everything was, thats it. And this is why i say get a saftey pilot for the Inst. rating. Learn it on your own, and let me buff out the rough spots.
 
mshunter said:
141 = sales gimick. Most people can't get it done in the time 141 allots. Get yourself an instructor to teach you the basics of inst flying (BAI). Get a saftey pilot, fly x-countries under the hood with them, and shoot VFR practice approaches at each end. Get to around 35-40 hrs of x-country time and go back to your instructor for the rest of the time.

When I was at a 141 school instructing, only one person ever got ther PPL in the 35hrs. His dad owned an Arrow, and he showed up knowing just about everthing he needed to pass his checkride. From the first lesson, I was only there to make things legal. I said "show me slow flight" and he'd do PTS slow flight. I'd say give me a steep turn, and he'd do a perfect steep turn. The only area he had trouble with was emergencies. It wasn't because he coulden't handle them, it was because the Arrow and the 172 are layed out completely different. He had to develop the muscle memory of where everything was, thats it. And this is why i say get a saftey pilot for the Inst. rating. Learn it on your own, and let me buff out the rough spots.
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141 Private isn't much different than 61 Private. The instrument is quite a bit different. 35 hours is very doable for instrument.
 
mshunter said:
Get a saftey pilot, fly x-countries under the hood with them, and shoot VFR practice approaches at each end. Get to around 35-40 hrs of x-country time and go back to your instructor for the rest of the time.
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Totally agree. My CFII was basically along for the ride, and didn't say much. Found some weak spots, and we worked those out. At 5 or 6 hours, he started asking about scheduling my checkride. I still needed more instrument time towards the 40, he set my up with one of his CFI students that needed hours.

Find someone who is time building for their commercial, and go up with them. You should be almost ready for the instrument ride by the time you are up with a CFII, and then it will just be the cross countries and prep for the ride.

I wouldn't do it 141. Part 61 you are more likely to get the chance to be in real weather, which is the most important thing you will learn about in the airplane. Everything else you can do on the ground.
 
mojo6911 said:
141 Private isn't much different than 61 Private. The instrument is quite a bit different. 35 hours is very doable for instrument.
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And thats exactly my point. You will be REQUIRED to be with an instructor for 35hrs in the air and 30hrs on the ground (for initial). If you use a 61 instructor, they only have to be in the airplanes for 15hrs, and the ground can honestly be done in about 8. Take your pick, 65x$40=$2600, for the bear minumum, plus the price of the airplane/sim. And $40 per hour is cheap for a 141 instructor, for just the instructor, where I was at, it was $90. I personally think there are ways to get it done much cheaper, and still make a good inst. pilot.

141 = sales gimmick.
 
The only advantage doing the IR 141 is that it waives the 50 X-C requirement (which can be seen as an advantage or not, depending). Look up the differences, and add up the costs.
 
mshunter said:
the ground can honestly be done in about 8.
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i think this number is a little low, ground instruction is pretty much the cornerstone of the instrument rating, the flying isnt hard, it just takes practice, i dont think you could turn someone into a knowledgeable IFR aviator in a workday, even if they read the books.
 
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