Part 135 SIC Pilot Development Program

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
The recent FAR amendments (last month) has a piece which allows a Part 135 operator to have a SIC PDP approved and incorporated into its OpSpecs (new 135.99) Pilots in the program will be allowed to log SIC time on flights which would otherwise not allow for it. There's also a new AC for it.

This does not go into effect until then end if November, but I am curious whether it is being talked about in companies.
 

renaissance2008

Well-Known Member
Who really benefits form this ?
Why would a part 135 operator hire a copilot when they don't have to ?
Will this bring back the PTF scheme or create more opportunities for low time pilot ?
 

gotWXdagain

Polished Member
Who really benefits form this ?
Why would a part 135 operator hire a copilot when they don't have to ?
Will this bring back the PTF scheme or create more opportunities for low time pilot ?
Lots of 2-crew B200s flying around in EMS cause “safety.” Some pay their SICs well, some pay them out of the “captain’s share.”
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Just from reading threads here, plenty of operators already use two pilots in operations which don't require them. Insurance requirements, customer demand, marketing edge. Those copilots have zero loggable flight time unless they are the flying pilot.

The goal of the rule is to allow those pilots to build time toward ATP minimums.

Subject to possible abuse? Sure. Isn't everything?
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
Why would an operator pay a non-required pilot to build time (1500) so then the non-required pilot could then go to a regional? The operators who replied to the NPRM are the ones that need PICs.

Don’t shoot the messenger, but I really think the only way is a PFT/PFJ deal where the SIC pilot pays up front, but after 12 months as a PIC gets the money returned plus interest. If it’s put in escrow, I think it wouldn’t be taxed as income.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
AMF has been doing this for a while now. But they've been using the whole "in leu of an autopilot..."
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
AMF has been doing this for a while now. But they've been using the whole "in leu of an autopilot..."

I thought 135 cargo IFR didn’t require an SIC.

I think a couple of operators had some letter @ATN_Pilot was talking about, but I think that got flushed a few years ago.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
I thought 135 cargo IFR didn’t require an SIC.

I think a couple of operators had some letter @ATN_Pilot was talking about, but I think that got flushed a few years ago.
They aren't required. But they can be used in leu of an autopilot. That's how all the eagle jet pay to play guys got to fly as SIC's. From my understanding AMF is hiring lower time pilots as SIC's and building them up to PIC's.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
They aren't required. But they can be used in leu of an autopilot. That's how all the eagle jet pay to play guys got to fly as SIC's. From my understanding AMF is hiring lower time pilots as SIC's and building them up to PIC's.
From a regulatory SIC /logging standpoint, SIC in lieu of autopilot is for passenger ops. Perhaps a waiver or somehting in their OpSpecs?
 

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
From a regulatory SIC /logging standpoint, SIC in lieu of autopilot is for passenger ops. Perhaps a waiver or somehting in their OpSpecs?
Correct. I don't have the op spec on hand anymore, but they have the ability to designate a flight as requiring two pilots.
 

SrFnFly227

Well-Known Member
The management company that I fly for operates a King Air 200. We have "autopilot in lieu of second in command", but it has always been flown with a right seater. It used to have one full time guy and they would supplement with contract right seaters. The owner now has 2 full time PICs.

We are also adding a King Air 90 to the certificate and it will be flown by a full time PIC with right seat fill ins. I haven't discussed it with the company, but I'm sure this is something that we'll add to our operation. It's nice to be able to help local pilots gain experience.
 

denverpilot

Well-Known Member
Who really benefits form this ?
Why would a part 135 operator hire a copilot when they don't have to ?
Will this bring back the PTF scheme or create more opportunities for low time pilot ?
The smaller 135s are losing people so fast to other bigger places that if they can get a 250 hour Commerical guy or gal in the right seat and let them log time, they might have a 135 minimums pilot before the guy or gal in the left seat quits for greener pastures.

Rumor is that this particular change was pushed for by Ameriflight. But they all benefit if they can get SICs logging time in something.

Talked to a guy today who flies for a regional that’s lost 60 pilots to bigger carriers since March and hired 20. Not a 135, they’re actually 121, but they’re going to suck away all the 135 Captains. And they’re already hiring street Captains with $40,000 signing bonuses.
 

Inverted

Give your balls a tug Jonsey..
Who really benefits form this ?
Why would a part 135 operator hire a copilot when they don't have to ?
Will this bring back the PTF scheme or create more opportunities for low time pilot ?
Companies that can hire wet ticket low timers...
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
That 250-hr wonder is an expense to the 135 operator because that flight can legally depart if the “SIC” had the fish and is stuck in the John. Until completing Upgrade, that pilot really doesn’t contribute to the operation and increases the red numbers in the ledger.

Yes, the 135 operator needs PICs, but if said 250-hr wonder gets another 1250 hrs (or how many hrs are required for the regional) and leaves, then the operator is in the hole.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
That 250-hr wonder is an expense to the 135 operator because that flight can legally depart if the “SIC” had the fish and is stuck in the John. Until completing Upgrade, that pilot really doesn’t contribute to the operation and increases the red numbers in the ledger.

Yes, the 135 operator needs PICs, but if said 250-hr wonder gets another 1250 hrs (or how many hrs are required for the regional) and leaves, then the operator is in the hole.
With how short some of these operators are on pilots, it's worth the investment. I'm fb friends with some vet AMF guys. They are traveling all over the country and Caribbean trying to keep the fleet going. PHX based guys are doing San Juan flights and etc...

That's with the huge pay increase and the gateway program to UPS. When I was a new hire at AMF back in 2006, we were a class full of early 20's just 2 years or less removed from college kids. The groups of new hires that I currently see on facebook is a very different looking group. They are more of the, "I've retired from my real job and I'm making this a second career" type group.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
With how short some of these operators are on pilots, it's worth the investment. I'm fb friends with some vet AMF guys. They are traveling all over the country and Caribbean trying to keep the fleet going. PHX based guys are doing San Juan flights and etc...

That's with the huge pay increase and the gateway program to UPS. When I was a new hire at AMF back in 2006, we were a class full of early 20's just 2 years or less removed from college kids. The groups of new hires that I currently see on facebook is a very different looking group. They are more of the, "I've retired from my real job and I'm making this a second career" type group.
The industry is certainly out of whack right now. There is a large amount of 65ers going to the 135 world right now. I recently spoke to a guy that retired on the 747 in Asia and is now flying a Navajo or 99 somewhere in the US while trying to get into 135 passenger operations. Prior to this position he’s never received used CTAF, loaded bags or cargo. He took the freight job to get “small” airplane experience and will continue to pursue a Lear or Citation style job.


Sent from my Startac using Tapatalk.
 

gotWXdagain

Polished Member
With how short some of these operators are on pilots, it's worth the investment. I'm fb friends with some vet AMF guys. They are traveling all over the country and Caribbean trying to keep the fleet going. PHX based guys are doing San Juan flights and etc...

That's with the huge pay increase and the gateway program to UPS. When I was a new hire at AMF back in 2006, we were a class full of early 20's just 2 years or less removed from college kids. The groups of new hires that I currently see on facebook is a very different looking group. They are more of the, "I've retired from my real job and I'm making this a second career" type group.
With the stories I've heard (1st hand) from former AMF pilots, if they're still carrying on with the "don't write up your tumbled HSI until the next mini phase" attitude with MX, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that they've got such a shortage.
 
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