Ownership - Cost Spreadsheet?

[killbilly]

I know there's a bazillion resources out there. Trying to narrow down the choices, separate the noise from signal.

Any of you guys have a spreadsheet you use as a guide to manage your costs?

I can make my own, but I don't want to re-invent the wheel if you've got something useful.

 

[EIR]

The short answer, no.

I never wanted to know how much I was spending. I was chasing an electrical / xpndr issue for months. If I added those receipts up, I probably would have cried and sold the plane the next day.

 

[web265]

Haha, I had half of a similar answer typed out and decided not to be a downer to @killbilly .

I don't have a spreadsheet but keep everything categorized in quicken, YTD about $4,000 on a 172 in including a $400 a month hangar and annual for this year with just a couple minor fixes.

 

[Nark]

I’ll echo what @EIR said.
There is a personal cost benefit analysis you should do. I have chased a lot of gremlins and wanted to sell the plane on the spot, but then as soon as it fixed, it gives me 50+hours of hassle-free flying. I’ve done so many awesome things over the years, that doesn’t save me money, but rather scratches that aviation itch I’ve always had.

 

[killbilly]

Thanks guys. This is more about pre-buy analysis and a gut check to make sure of what I need/want.

 

[BigZ]

Thanks guys. This is more about pre-buy analysis and a gut check to make sure of what I need/want.

What the others said for the most part

With what I have, I think I'd break even (vs rent) at 70-80 hrs a year, provided nothing breaks, no new ADs, no 9.5k ads-b xponders etc.

 

[EIR]

Thanks guys. This is more about pre-buy analysis and a gut check to make sure of what I need/want.

Get a thorough pre-buy. I would even suggest doing an annual in lieu of the pre-buy at a reputable shop (not some local field mechanic). Then, you sit down with the seller and go over any squawks; discuss who is responsible for the repairs. This is what I have done and it has worked well for me. This ensures you aren't getting a pig with lipstick; going into your next annual you're not blindsided with a $15k bill.

Good luck with your search - it is enjoyable, terrifying and frustrating all at the same time.

 

[killbilly]

Get a thorough pre-buy. I would even suggest doing an annual in lieu of the pre-buy at a reputable shop (not some local field mechanic). Then, you sit down with the seller and go over any squawks; discuss who is responsible for the repairs. This is what I have done and it has worked well for me. This ensures you aren't getting a pig with lipstick; going into your next annual you're not blindsided with a $15k bill.

Good luck with your search - it is enjoyable, terrifying and frustrating all at the same time.

Yup. That's on the to-do list.

 

[Springer]

Any of you guys have a spreadsheet you use as a guide to manage your costs?

No spread sheet as mine is simple: $1000/yr ins, $1100 owner assisted annual, $165/mth hangar rent, $25/yr registration. Oil change today: $67 Labor: $0

Gas & Go plane.

 

[BigZ]

$165/mth hangar rent

Ugh...

 

[USMCmech]

This ensures you aren't getting a pig with lipstick; going into your next annual you're not blindsided with a $15k bill.

Even with a good pre buy, as an owner you need to be ready to pay for an overhaul in the first couple years of flying your plane. Hopefully you don't need it, but if you were counting on using that money for Jr's college you could be in a pinch

Acquisition costs
Purchase price
Pre buy inspection
Upgrades

Fixed costs
Hangar rent
Insurance
Annual

Hourly costs
Fuel
Oil
MX reserve

Gotchas
Engine overhaul
Insurance deductible

Make a spreadsheet with these numbers before you commit. The actual numbers will be different, but at least you will have an idea of what's coming.

 

[EIR]

@USMCmech, you took what I said out of context and forgot the biggest part - "I would even suggest doing an annual in lieu of the pre-buy at a reputable shop (not some local field mechanic).

But, for the most part what you said is a good idea. I don't think upgrades and cash on hand for an overhaul immediately are necessary, but to each their own. My Cherokee is still /A, and I have no intentions of doing anything to the panel. Just recently I installed a GTX335, but that was because the original Narco crapped the bed.

 

[USMCmech]

@USMCmech, you took what I said out of context and forgot the biggest part - "I would even suggest doing an annual in lieu of the pre-buy at a reputable shop (not some local field mechanic).

But, for the most part what you said is a good idea. I don't think upgrades and cash on hand for an overhaul immediately are necessary, but to each their own. My Cherokee is still /A, and I have no intentions of doing anything to the panel. Just recently I installed a GTX335, but that was because the original Narco crapped the bed.

My apologies, that was not my intent.

Even with a good pre-buy or annual, an owner can get an expensive surprise the day after he signs the registration. I don't think that an owner needs to have cash on hand for an overhaul (I certainly don't). However I think you do need to have an idea of what one might cost and the ability to pull that cash together from somewhere (maybe we don't go to Disney this year).

A potential buyer should also have an idea of what initial upgrades they want done and what it will cost. I'm putting in a new transponder and comm radio, because I have to. Converting from heel to toe brakes because that's what all my experience is in. Fancy stuff can wait till later, but I'm researching what those will cost down the road.

 

[Nark]

... However I think you do need to have an idea of what one might cost and the ability to pull that cash together from somewhere (maybe we don't go to Disney this year)...

Holy smokes, I know Disney isn’t cheap but in the ball park of an overhaul? Yowza!

 

[killbilly]

I’m giving careful consideration to an air machine right now and taking my time and doing research. Couple of decent candidates in the pipeline but I’m taking it slow.

Learning all kinds of things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Constellation]

A quick run-down on the costs of my first year of ownership for my 150.

Covered Tie-Down: $100/month
Insurance: $600 a year
GTX335 ADS-B Transponder: $3,200+
First Annual: $5,000+
Miscellaneous Repairs throughout the year: $2,500 (new spark plugs, tire, battery, etc.)

Expenses easily doubled the budgets I made for the airplane and it turned into a project to simply ensure the next owner has a nice, airworthy airplane. A big portion of the annual was complying with Cessna'a service bulletin SEB 95-3 for the flap rollers, which added nearly $2,000 to the annual as it had never been accomplished in the 25 years of inspections prior to my ownership.

Fortunately, I've had zero issues on the engine, which has lots of time left from its overhaul (compressions and oil analysis were good).

While the aircraft no longer makes economic sense and it never fulfilled its mission, I've learned a lot and continue to enjoy the process of improving it.

Some suggestions as well: Ensure any modifications for the airplane have the appropriate paperwork filed (STC?, 337 filed?). If the modifications have continuous airworthiness requirements, ensure they're being complied with at annual or interval required. Do the modifications require additional placards? Being a first-time owner, these were some of the issues I ran into that I was not fully aware of going into the ownership process.

 

[Nark]

I had something written up going in to to much detail. I’ll keep it short and concise.

I fly my planes a lot for a typical owner, which reflects on the cost of the annual. Things break on occasion throughout the year and are repaired or replaced. By the time the annual comes around, not much needs to be addressed.

Machines need to be exercised. A low time sub 2000TT 200SMOH 1960’s whatever is just as much a red flag, or potential money pit as a 10,000TT 1800SMOH 1990ish airplane.
My 182 had 175 SMOH since 2009, and the crankshaft had corrosion on it from lack of use.
Continental extends the TBO by 200 hours if you run the engine at cruise settings for 1 hour every 14 days.

Flying it often costs money, but so does not flying it.


Edited:

I try to keep a lot of records, and play with Excel.
I've flown the 180 roughly 333 hours just under 2.25 years, of which 7 months it was in a hangar getting the new panel. sooo pilot math... I fly it about 17.5 hours a month.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Just do some quick back of the napkin math. Whatever number you come up with, double it. That‘ll be about right. Triple it to be safe.

 

[USMCmech]

Continental extends the TBO by 200 hours if you run the engine at cruise settings for 1 hour every 14 days.

Hands down the best thing you can do for any airplane is to fly it every 2 weeks.

 

[Nark]

Hands down the best thing you can do for any airplane is to fly it every 2 weeks.

I’m trying to do my darndest!