Our Careers Could Hang in the Balance

[jwp_145]

Why wouldn't U.S. carriers be able to move into European routes, which could benefit U.S. majors and their pilots?

The pay and benefit packages at Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways, etc are equal or higher than their U.S. counterparts.



That statement is just wrong. The partnership just started a few months ago. Qantas has spent the last 6-7 years transferring their international flying to Jetstar*. Their management spent so much time and effort diluting the brand that the international division started losing money, even though they had a virtual monopoly on Oz-USA routes. The Emirates partnership puts Qantas code on all of the European cities, Africa as well. The overwhelming majority to places Qantas never served before. I just flew to Accra with a Qantas code attached. That's one of those 84 routes that Qantas pilots lost, huh


Typhoonpilot

Do you realize how heavily subsidized those airlines are? And how much • MONEY Air France LOSES EVERY YEAR even with subsidies? Please don't talk out your arse. You sound like a Euro.

 

[jhugz]

The foreign negative wage pressure is no different then the domestic negative wage pressure. Make sure you worry about this, but be sure to keep flying those RJ's at poverty wage levels. High five!

 

[mikecweb]

Mike - serious question and I'm dense right now - how does this affect your career, you're corporate aren't you? Is it that foreign pilots would take biz away from American carriers...leaving a large pool of unemployed pilots and negative wage pressure?

1)It's not all about me. I care about my profession as a whole.
2)At this point I'm corporate until an airline that pays the bills calls.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Do you realize how heavily subsidized those airlines are? And how much MONEY Air France LOSES EVERY YEAR even with subsidies? Please don't talk out your arse. You sound like a Euro.

Oh, you mean they use bankruptcy in order to shed their debt in Europe? and that they get money from the federal government when airplanes crash into buildings?

Please detail for me the last time the UK government gave a bailout to British AIrways; the French government to Air France/KLM, and the German government to Lufthansa.

You also mean that they shed the pilot ( and other employee pensions ) when in bankruptcy because their laws are so riddled with holes that they can legally underfund the pensions?


TP

 

[Brand X]

Oh, you mean they use bankruptcy in order to shed their debt in Europe? and that they get money from the federal government when airplanes crash into buildings?

Please detail for me the last time the UK government gave a bailout to British AIrways; the French government to Air France/KLM, and the German government to Lufthansa.

You also mean that they shed the pilot ( and other employee pensions ) when in bankruptcy because their laws are so riddled with holes that they can legally underfund the pensions?


TP

Face!

 

[mikecweb]

Damn look at what the cat dragged in.

 

[jskibo]

Oh, you mean they use bankruptcy in order to shed their debt in Europe? and that they get money from the federal government when airplanes crash into buildings?

Please detail for me the last time the UK government gave a bailout to British AIrways; the French government to Air France/KLM, and the German government to Lufthansa.

You also mean that they shed the pilot ( and other employee pensions ) when in bankruptcy because their laws are so riddled with holes that they can legally underfund the pensions?


TP

Wasn't Alitalia bailed out repeatedly? They were on our corporate credit watch list and we couldn't contract with them when I was running the support side of the Italy 767 tanker show.

 

[hook_dupin]

The EU is asking the U.S. to dismantle our foreign ownership & control and cabotage laws.

I think this one will quickly die. It said the EU brought the idea of US aviation industry protection to the table...It didn't say anything about the US response. I don't think Congress is too interested in having job losses to foreign competition in every state in the land.

 

[jwp_145]

Oh, you mean they use bankruptcy in order to shed their debt in Europe? and that they get money from the federal government when airplanes crash into buildings?

Please detail for me the last time the UK government gave a bailout to British AIrways; the French government to Air France/KLM, and the German government to Lufthansa.

You also mean that they shed the pilot ( and other employee pensions ) when in bankruptcy because their laws are so riddled with holes that they can legally underfund the pensions?


TP

You make points that I cannot immediately refute without references, and yes the US's current system is a crock of •te. I'm more so worried about Emirates, Qatar, and the Chinese Airlines.
I know a lot of these places pay good money to expat pilots now, but when the chinese factories start churning out adequate numbers of pilots then those good expat jobs will go away.

ANd JHUGZ, didn't you once upon a time fly an RJ?

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Wasn't Alitalia bailed out repeatedly? They were on our corporate credit watch list and we couldn't contract with them when I was running the support side of the Italy 767 tanker show.

No, unless the government selling its shares at a discount is a subsidy.

By the early 2000's, subsidies other than tax breaks had pretty much dried up where they had been common for decades. In the UK, they continue to move in the opposite direction, with the possibility that carriers will lose their tax break on fuel purchases.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

ANd JHUGZ, didn't you once upon a time fly an RJ?

...but not behind the locked door?

-ducks-

 

[mshunter]

ANd JHUGZ, didn't you once upon a time fly an RJ?

...but not behind the locked door?

-ducks-

He was a stewardess.

 

[H46Bubba]

REALLY can't wait to fly Asiana JFK-SFO...

Even better!

 

[jhugz]

He was a stewardess.

Flight Attendant, MR RJ FO.

 

[scooter2525]

Flight Attendant, MR RJ FO.

Queen of the skies, were ya?

 

[scooter2525]

But back on track, what can we do as the empire of JC to turn the ship of cabbotge around and keep our careers from sailing to other countries?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Do you realize how heavily subsidized those airlines are? And how much MONEY Air France LOSES EVERY YEAR even with subsidies? Please don't talk out your arse. You sound like a Euro.

And then there's Emirates, where it's quite easy to make money when there are no labor laws and the government subsidizes the airplanes.

 

[typhoonpilot]

And then there's Emirates, where it's quite easy to make money when there are no labor laws and the government subsidizes the airplanes.

Please explain which government and how they "subsidize airplanes".

At $300,000/year+ for Captains, including all pay and benefits, one really wonders when the protections will kick in without labor laws. I really feel underpaid and under-appreciated for my efforts.


TP

 

[Kingairer]

Please explain which government and how they "subsidize airplanes".

At $300,000/year+ for Captains, including all pay and benefits, one really wonders when the protections will kick in without labor laws. I really feel underpaid and under-appreciated for my efforts.


TP

I think the question for Americans is quite simple, How does this help American Workers? And the answer is simple, it doesn't.

 

[ChasenSFO]

People think American pilots have SJS. If this went thru, the line of Europeans that would be willing to fork over $100,000 for flight training, initial training, and type ratings to fly US domestic flights in 737s for B1900 rates would never end. Seriously, it would never end.