OTS vs CTI for a newbie

G

gflo

New Member
Hey guys,

As a recent college grad (May '09) with a B.S. in nothing related to aviation, I'm trying to decide what is the best way to vie for a position at the academy...

From what I've read in posts on this forum, it appears that no OTS postings will go up until next year. I would prefer to do whatever I can to speed up the process, but I realize that doing a CTI program might just kill time and money if OTS hiring continues.

So, for someone just starting this process now as either a potential OTS or CTI applicant... what route makes the most sense? I recognize that OTS is more of a gamble, but my issue is that a CTI program just gives me another offering under which to apply and doesn't guarantee any position at the academy.

Any input would be greatly appreciated! :cool:

~gflo
 
do CTI. as of now, it looks like its going to be a couple years for anyone to get hired (of course this is all based on rumors, but it is what I have deducted from all the forum chatter).

CTI will give you more oppertunities to apply, and you can always apply to the next open hire whether you are in a CTI program anyway... so why not have the ability to do both?
 
The Vaughn online CTI-program seems to be the fastest, albeit not the most cost effective option... Anybody else already been through or in the midst of this particular program?

flyingwriter... I see "Go Blue" in your sig... did you go to UMich by any chance?
 
gflo said:
flyingwriter... I see "Go Blue" in your sig... did you go to UMich by any chance?
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Unfortunately no. I slacked off in high school and didn't get the grades to get accepted. I went to Western Michigan University, basically a glorified community college on the west side of Michigan. I'm still a big M fan, though. Go Blue!
 
I asked because that's where I went... it's an awesome place! :)

On a separate note though, how long have you been in this process so far?

I'm trying to put together a timeline for myself, even though I've seen it greatly vary for some of the posters on this forums and others.
 
gflo said:
I asked because that's where I went... it's an awesome place! :)

On a separate note though, how long have you been in this process so far?

I'm trying to put together a timeline for myself, even though I've seen it greatly vary for some of the posters on this forums and others.
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I applied to PUBNAT 8, so about 7 months. I can't say I'm still in the process, because according to many sources, off the street (OTS) hiring is winding down. Also, I don't know if I want to wait around until my number is finally called. The wait is LONG. Those who applied to PUBNAT 7 back in December 2008 are still waiting for selection panels, and a few of those who were picked up from earlier PUBNATs have been waiting for an Oklahoma City class date for years. I wouldn't suggest going OTS, as chances of making it that way are about the same as winning the lottery. If you really want this job, do CTI or the military, or look into CTO school.
 
What is the difference between a CTO and a CTI school?

(I know I should know this, but I'm a little unclear on it). :(
 
gflo said:
What is the difference between a CTO and a CTI school?

(I know I should know this, but I'm a little unclear on it). :(
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CTO is a Control Tower Operator certification that you get after you've been through your schooling and training.

CTI is the Collegiate Training Initiative, which represents the FAA's college training program to get students started on the path toward an aviation career, particularly ATC. Once you complete a CTI program at an approved college/university, you get a "recommendation" to the Academy in OKC. Nowadays, you basically just get to apply to the CTI openings instead of getting an almost-instant bid for class. CTI programs are probably the most recommended route for getting into ATC now because of the maaaaajor slowdown in OTS hiring.
 
CTI is the Collegiate Training Initiative, which consists of 31 schools commissioned by the FAA to train air traffic controllers. Some are two-year schools, some offer four-year degrees. If you already have a Bachelor's degree, it should only take you one year to complete a CTI program. Graduating from a CTI school allows you to apply to CTI announcements, and gives you a much better chance of making it to OKC.

CTO is a Control Tower Operator certificate, and there are two privately-owned schools (one in Texas and one in Georgia) that offer CTO training programs. The programs take about a year to complete. CTI schools do not offer CTO certificates. The advantage of this over CTI is that it allows you to apply to CTO announcements, which have a much shorter time period of training in OKC and will get you at a facility much faster. It also allows you to apply to work at privately-owned towers if you are so inclined. The downside to this is the cost - CTO schools are far more expensive that CTI schools, and generally you won't be able to get student loans to cover the cost.
 
jermscentral said:
CTO is a Control Tower Operator certification that you get after you've been through your schooling and training.

CTI is the Collegiate Training Initiative, which represents the FAA's college training program to get students started on the path toward an aviation career, particularly ATC. Once you complete a CTI program at an approved college/university, you get a "recommendation" to the Academy in OKC. Nowadays, you basically just get to apply to the CTI openings instead of getting an almost-instant bid for class. CTI programs are probably the most recommended route for getting into ATC now because of the maaaaajor slowdown in OTS hiring.
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Beat me to it. :clap::beer:
 
That's what I thought... I was just confused because I thought you meant there were both CTI and CTO schools. I got it now though. Speaking of CTI school, Vaughn is the only one I found with an online program, do you guys happen to know of any others?
 
I'm in pretty much the same boat as the OP. I graduate with a business degree in May of this year. I've applied to the University of Oklahoma for the CTI program...hope all goes well.
 
Go CTI. Even at the peak of OTS hiring it was still a gamble. At this point, if somebody's serious about a career in ATC, they'd be foolish to rely on getting in through the OTS path. Hiring trends are notoriously hard to predict, even for the FAA themselves, but I wouldn't expect more than 1 in 5 OTS hires off of the next opening... whenever that finally occurs. October at the very earliest.

flyingwriter said:
The advantage of this over CTI is that it allows you to apply to CTO announcements, which have a much shorter time period of training in OKC and will get you at a facility much faster.
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Ehhhh... jury's still out on those programs. Nobody has ever reported students actually getting into the FAA from those programs, and both have graduated classes by now. They've made all sorts of misleading -- and sometimes completely untrue -- claims, like that the FAA has agreed to hire all of their grads (false), that upon finishing the course you'll be given a TOL on the spot (false) and that the FAA has approved their program (false). They've also tried to astroturf StuckMic, which isn't the sign of an honest, legit program.

Most importantly, as I recall, CTO applications require 52 weeks of time as a controller. Which you can't get through these schools. Meaning that you'll be applying via the PUBNATs.

It's all suspicious and there are plenty of red flags and unanswered questions on the part of those schools. Especially considering the extreme expense -- over $40,000 for the one in Denison -- it's not a good decision at all.
 
Ehhhh... jury's still out on those programs. Nobody has ever reported students actually getting into the FAA from those programs, and both have graduated classes by now. They've made all sorts of misleading -- and sometimes completely untrue -- claims, like that the FAA has agreed to hire all of their grads (false), that upon finishing the course you'll be given a TOL on the spot (false) and that the FAA has approved their program (false). They've also tried to astroturf StuckMic, which isn't the sign of an honest, legit program.


Even though the verdict is still out from the FAA reporting on those programs, while shopping for cti schools myself, the programs can provide some pretty decent numbers of the students that did make it to the FAA. Now... to believe them or not. :confused:
 
I was told that with my Bachelor's degree in aerospace engineering and my pilot certificates, I would only need 1 year of full time classes here in Denver to become a CTI grad. Seems like a small investment, but 1 year full time is 1 long year, and seeing how slow the hiring has gotten I'm pretty doubtful as to whether its even worth it under my unique circumstances.

I toured the CTI facility, and they put you through classes like Meteorology, Private and Instrument ground school, and a couple basic ATC classes. You don't get anything that is FAA certified, no CTO, no permit or anything of the sort. Just the good ol' sheepskin that says you graduated with a BS in Aerospace Sciences with CTI.

If someone can give me a compelling argument why I should spend a year and a few grand to be a CTI grad, I'd love to have an excuse to go do it. Another factor is when I was a kid I had a felony adjudication (as in juvenile adjudication not adult conviction of a crime), and I'm not sure I can get past the security clearance even if I am open and honest about the stupid childhood mistake.
 
aviator5ds said:
I was told that with my Bachelor's degree in aerospace engineering and my pilot certificates, I would only need 1 year of full time classes here in Denver to become a CTI grad. Seems like a small investment, but 1 year full time is 1 long year, and seeing how slow the hiring has gotten I'm pretty doubtful as to whether its even worth it under my unique circumstances.

I toured the CTI facility, and they put you through classes like Meteorology, Private and Instrument ground school, and a couple basic ATC classes. You don't get anything that is FAA certified, no CTO, no permit or anything of the sort. Just the good ol' sheepskin that says you graduated with a BS in Aerospace Sciences with CTI.

If someone can give me a compelling argument why I should spend a year and a few grand to be a CTI grad, I'd love to have an excuse to go do it. Another factor is when I was a kid I had a felony adjudication (as in juvenile adjudication not adult conviction of a crime), and I'm not sure I can get past the security clearance even if I am open and honest about the stupid childhood mistake.
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This guy is scaring me. CTI...yay or nay?
 
aviator5ds said:
I was told that with my Bachelor's degree in aerospace engineering and my pilot certificates, I would only need 1 year of full time classes here in Denver to become a CTI grad. ...
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Have you thought about applying for an FAA job as an Aerospace Engineer? There are several public openings right now for job code 0861 on usajobs.gov, including three in Denver. Do you have any experience?
 
I've applied to every one I see. I even applied to one a year ago and it's still on my ASAP page but I'm still a candidate, no referral list yet. No experience, that is part of the problem. You would think there is a job out there that could make use of an instrument rated pilot who is also an Aerospace Engineer...

Economy sucks, just the way it's been since I graduated in May. I'm working as a server at a restaurant and applying for everything I see, calling companies and offering 2 weeks of work for free to prove myself, still nothing. Thanks for the info though I'll look into those denver jobs.

Oh and by the way, I see you're ZDC. Scott (area 5 mgr) is a friend of mine give him a hard time for me :)
 
A felony is a hold up i'm sure, but if someone is honest about it perhaps it can be overlooked. Especially if it was a long time ago.
The school I graduated from with my bachelors, and two minors-all aviation- told me I needed an associates degree from them: guaranteed two yrs. Some of these newly certified cti schools are sketchy for sure! My rear still hurts from the 1st time I attended...
 
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