OTH Discharge?

chipdouglas

chipdouglas

New Member
OTH Discharge

Don't know if this is the right forum for this; here goes anyway...

I have wanted to be an airline pilot for over a decade now, and have watched from the outside as the profession has evolved through various cycles (pay, job demand, etc.). Regardless of its present state, I still want to be one because I love to fly (just short of a PPL at the moment). Even if I don't do it professionally I'll find some way to do it recreationally.

I am probably going to get an OTH (Other Than Honorable: an "administrative separation") Discharge from the USMC Reserves for failure to attend monthly drills. I'm not going to build an elaborate defense here; only say that I've served honorably for 18 months enlisted in a ground combat unit (9 months active) but my unit is not willing to work around college (I am one semester from graduation) as advertised. I should be graduated right now but my military obligations have already delayed me a year and a half and promise to delay me another year and a half, and I am not willing to do this again and come back at age 27 to kill my last semester as an undergrad.

I know that at the higher levels, job screening for commercial airline pilots is a process that involves a LOT of scrutiny. I want to know how damaging this discharge will be in my quest to find employment as a pilot before I go on food stamps and take out a quarter-million in loans to get an ATP cert and build hours. Will it be impossible or astronomically unlikely to get on with a real commercial airline with an OTH?

Please, if you aren't familiar with the OTH discharge or its consequences in the civilian aviation world, don't respond. PLEASE DON'T GUESS or "go with your gut." I am looking for people with anecdotal/experiential information (employers/interviewers, people who have gone through or know someone who has gone through a similar situation). Also, I realize many of you will have a problem with my decision and that's respectable. All I ask is that if you have questions, want to know more about my situation, want to give me a piece of your mind or relay any kind of information that doesn't directly answer my question, do so in a PM if you absolutely must rather than in your post. Thanks.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

I'm really not too sure how many of us here who have military experience, and have also sat on an interview board at any of the popular 135 or 121 operators.

From what I have seen though, an OTH may draw certain questions, such as wanting you to explain why you have the OTH, instead of an honorable.

Also if I'm not mistaken remember that an OTH can be turned into an Honorable after a certain period of time after your seperation. I'm not too up anymore on that process, or what the waiting period is for - but it's something I'd recommend looking into.

I wish you the best of luck. I hate to see fellow service members getting played and treated like #### because they want to further their education, but - such is the military climate we presently enjoy. Seeing enlisted members pursueing higher education was always an issue for heartburn out of my unit. One of the leading factors in my ultimate seperation from the Air Force.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

OTH discharges happen for various reasons....it's by no means, a bad conduct/ dishonorable discharge. I wouldn't let it stop you from pursuing your goals....although, it just might be an extra hurdle to overcome.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

chipdouglas said:
Don't know if this is the right forum for this; here goes anyway...

I have wanted to be an airline pilot for over a decade now, and have watched from the outside as the profession has evolved through various cycles (pay, job demand, etc.). Regardless of its present state, I still want to be one because I love to fly (just short of a PPL at the moment). Even if I don't do it professionally I'll find some way to do it recreationally.

I am probably going to get an OTH (Other Than Honorable: an "administrative separation") Discharge from the USMC Reserves for failure to attend monthly drills. I'm not going to build an elaborate defense here; only say that I've served honorably for 18 months enlisted in a ground combat unit (9 months active) but my unit is not willing to work around college (I am one semester from graduation) as advertised. I should be graduated right now but my military obligations have already delayed me a year and a half and promise to delay me another year and a half, and I am not willing to do this again and come back at age 27 to kill my last semester as an undergrad.

I know that at the higher levels, job screening for commercial airline pilots is a process that involves a LOT of scrutiny. I want to know how damaging this discharge will be in my quest to find employment as a pilot before I go on food stamps and take out a quarter-million in loans to get an ATP cert and build hours. Will it be impossible or astronomically unlikely to get on with a real commercial airline with an OTH?

Please, if you aren't familiar with the OTH discharge or its consequences in the civilian aviation world, don't respond. PLEASE DON'T GUESS or "go with your gut." I am looking for people with anecdotal/experiential information (employers/interviewers, people who have gone through or know someone who has gone through a similar situation). Also, I realize many of you will have a problem with my decision and that's respectable. All I ask is that if you have questions, want to know more about my situation, want to give me a piece of your mind or relay any kind of information that doesn't directly answer my question, do so in a PM if you absolutely must rather than in your post. Thanks.
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what will the discharge be?
General, General Under Honorable, Less than Honorable? Feel free to PM if you want. I could even ask around here to see how it would be viewed.
 
Chip,

I've been in the army for about six years now.

First of all im not here to scrutinize your decison. A couple of suggestions though. First I would contact JAG and ask them what the reprocussions of this would be. I've had some friends in the army be seperated on other than honorable conditions but after six months or a year it turns to honorable. I know that sounds kinda funny but I would seriously contact JAG and see if this is the lay of the land throughout the military or if this is just an army policy.
 
Just realize that if you have aspirations to try for a major airline, that the majority of major pilots are prior military. I think your OTH discharge will be frowned upon greatly at the major level.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

Probably Other Than Honorable (same as "Less Than Honorable" but not Dishonorable or Bad Conduct) but I'm going to try and upgrade to General Under Honorable (if not Honorable) because of some recruitment/contract disputes that kind of got the ball rolling on this whole debacle.

BTW, as much as I'd like for it to be true, there is no such thing as an "automatic upgrade" of an OTH. This is a persistent myth about military separation that is unfortunately not true.
 
Talked to Director of Pilot Recruiting at Continental about someone I was trying to get an interview for. This person had received an OTH discharge and even had some pretty good reasons to explain how it happened. Bottom line:
It is extremely unlikely that anyone with an OTH will be called for an interview. It will take extreme intervention from a Chief Pilot or Company Officer to get an interview, at least at Continental. I know one individual that flies for a regional that received an OTH discharge so it obviously varies from airline to airline. Hope that helps answer your question. I would focus on figuring out a way to avoid getting the OTH in the first place. Good Luck.....
 
Re: OTH Discharge

Airlines are probably going to want to see your DD-214 not just the member copy 1 - they will probably want to see copy 4 that characterizes your discharge in block 24 (OTH) , they will want to see your 3 letter separation code in block 26. I have no idea which pub "decodes" those 3 letter.

You can try to google the 3 letter separation code and see what sites come up.

When I interviewed at one airline, they checked to see what my block 26 code was and they had a secret decoder ring/sheet of paper. The HR interviewer said, as long as the code didn't say the military wouldn't take me back, I was okay. - his words.
 
I remember about ten years ago when Kelly Flinn - the first female B-52 pilot - was discharged after adultery and she got a General Discharge. I was trying to find out if she ever made it with the airlines or not, as that might be an indicator of whether you could get into the airlines or not. I'm not going to go into that whole situation except to say that she wasn't alone as a pilot to get discharged with a General Discharge that year, so I would think there might be some hope.

I would say though, based on what you said here, you have already done a few things in your favor. You owned it and you are honest about it. The fact that you said "I screwed up but I learned from it" I think is the best approach you could take in an interview.

I'm not working for an airline, but the few times I have had to interview people who had problems in the past, the ones who say "I just screwed up but man did I learn a lot from it" got another shot whereas the ones who say "Man, I was framed; it wasn't my fault; I was at the wrong place and they were out to get me; 10 other guys did it but I was the only one who got busted" don't get another shot. Why? Because as a hiring manager, I care more about how you reacted to a bad situation than the bad situation itself.

So, I'd say if it does come up, keep the same attitude you have right now. Own it, don't try to make excuses, and explain how you learned from it and won't a similar mistake again in the future.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

woodreau said:
Airlines are probably going to want to see your DD-214 not just the member copy 1 - they will probably want to see copy 4 that characterizes your discharge in block 24 (OTH) , they will want to see your 3 letter separation code in block 26. I have no idea which pub "decodes" those 3 letter.

You can try to google the 3 letter separation code and see what sites come up.

When I interviewed at one airline, they checked to see what my block 26 code was and they had a secret decoder ring/sheet of paper. The HR interviewer said, as long as the code didn't say the military wouldn't take me back, I was okay. - his words.
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I'm not sure what the USMC equivalent is, but in the USAF the MPF (Military Personnel flight) is the agency that issues the 3 letter separation code, and can tell you what they mean. I would imagine the USMC equivalent (personnel office) could give you the same.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

beis77 said:
I'm not sure what the USMC equivalent is, but in the USAF the MPF (Military Personnel flight) is the agency that issues the 3 letter separation code, and can tell you what they mean. I would imagine the USMC equivalent (personnel office) could give you the same.
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They're called re-enlistment classification codes. There's different codes for different discharges. It's listed like this(RE-3) on the DD-214.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

OR..I dont think this one has been suggested yet. You could try actually serving out your commitment honorably instead of "other" than honorably.

We all know the military schedule sucks and they do not want to work with you on typically anything but when you signed up you are signing up for whats behind door number three which is a big unknown. So they wont work with your schedule...dont re-enlist in 6 years when your contract is up. I dont want to cherry coat it like everyone else here did because I have seen it many times. 18 months is not alot of time to put in to throw in the towell yet. Talk to your NCOs, SNCOS, talk to your unit commander, request mast do what it takes to see if you can work something out.

Im personally not impressed with the idea of anything besides an honorable discharge and I would hope that EVERY hiring board would feel the same way. There are many reasons to get out of the Marines for various reasons without an honorable discharge but under the right circumstances they are general or medical and not OTH or dishonorable.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

chipdouglas said:
All I ask is that if you have questions, want to know more about my situation, want to give me a piece of your mind or relay any kind of information that doesn't directly answer my question, do so in a PM if you absolutely must rather than in your post. Thanks.
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I missed this part, I guess its all out there now. A mod can delete this if they want.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

I'm trying to figure out why you couldn't attend one weekend a month. I have hundreds of people in my unit that are in college and they are always there.

As far as getting an OTH discharge, it's not the greatest thing an employer wants to see, but it's not the worst either. I think your reasoning of "I didn't want to show up for one weekend because it slowed down my college" isn't going to fly. I relayed this story to my mom-in-law because she has been doing interviews for years and she said that it appears to her that you have a problem with fulfilling obligations.

You signed the contract, then let something else take priority over that contract. Not to mention you are probably using the GI bill, but not fulfilling your obligation to Uncle Sam.

In the grand scheme of things...what's a year and a half really?

So to answer your question...is it impossible to get an airline job with an OTH...no. But it would be extremely difficult.
 
Mike Lewis said:
I remember about ten years ago when Kelly Flinn - the first female B-52 pilot - was discharged after adultery and she got a General Discharge. I was trying to find out if she ever made it with the airlines or not, as that might be an indicator of whether you could get into the airlines or not. I'm not going to go into that whole situation except to say that she wasn't alone as a pilot to get discharged with a General Discharge that year, so I would think there might be some hope.

I would say though, based on what you said here, you have already done a few things in your favor. You owned it and you are honest about it. The fact that you said "I screwed up but I learned from it" I think is the best approach you could take in an interview.

I'm not working for an airline, but the few times I have had to interview people who had problems in the past, the ones who say "I just screwed up but man did I learn a lot from it" got another shot whereas the ones who say "Man, I was framed; it wasn't my fault; I was at the wrong place and they were out to get me; 10 other guys did it but I was the only one who got busted" don't get another shot. Why? Because as a hiring manager, I care more about how you reacted to a bad situation than the bad situation itself.

So, I'd say if it does come up, keep the same attitude you have right now. Own it, don't try to make excuses, and explain how you learned from it and won't a similar mistake again in the future.
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She is an A-300 F/O at UPS. The female in charge of HR who was directly responsible for her hiring was fired by UPS as a result of her unilateral decision to hire her.
 
I didnt know HR was a main hiring factor at an airline. I thought it was a direct decision by a chief pilot within the company who then passes the decision to HR to offer employment.
 
Re: OTH Discharge

chipdouglas said:
I am probably going to get an OTH....discharge from the USMC Reserves for failure to attend monthly drills.....I've served honorably for 18 months enlisted in a ground combat unit (9 months active) but my unit is not willing to work around college (I am one semester from graduation) as advertised......I am not willing to do this...
I know that at the higher levels, job screening for commercial airline pilots is a process that involves a LOT of scrutiny. I want to know how damaging this discharge will be...
Click to expand...

When did the Marine Corps (NOT your recruiter) guarantee you would have the opportunity to go to college?

Ask yourself, if you were the hiring authority for an airline, would you hire the guy with an Honorable discharge or the guy who has to explain why he didn't get an honorable discharge?
 
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