Opportunities for Greenhorns

ghostjet

Well-Known Member
After reading what seems like almost every post on this forum over the past six months, I'm beginning to understand that much of the success right out of the gate after dispatch school comes from timing, flexibility and even a fair share of luck when it comes to landing that first job. I also realize that there are several possible routes one could take (regional, corporate, cargo, etc) each with its own distinct pros and cons. (interestingly, all three aviation puns in this paragraph were accidental.)

My question is, are there certain airlines or companies that are more likely to hire candidates right out of dispatch school than others? (or have been known to do so) And on the flip side, are there ones that typically avoid rookies with no 'real world' experience and aren't even worth trying?

Or is it just wiser to apply to every job posting, regardless of a particular company's' reputation?

Just trying to get a general idea of what states or cities I might (statistically) be headed to right out of dispatch school with no previous experience. I'm pretty flexible, and am the type of person that can usually find the silver lining in any cloud, but I guess I just want to know if that cloud will be over a scorching hot desert, a gorgeous mountain range, hopelessly flat farmland, a sweaty humid swamp, icy frozen lakes or a jam-packed, stressful city?

As usual, thank you. Your feedback is genuinely appreciated.

*meteorology metaphor was intentional
 
My advice; get into a passenger regional first. You'll learn a number of things, not least of which will be whether or not you can (or should) work as a flight dispatcher. You'll deal with high workload for low pay. The last sentence is a big reason why you're most likely to get on with one right out of school. Turnover is constant with dispatchers moving from one step to the next, or getting out of the biz altogether.

Plan on at least 1-2 years before taking your next step. So, even if you get an offer at a carrier who is based in Florida (sorry, I think it's horrific - as previously discussed), know that it won't be for that long, and eventually you can take the international supplemental to major route or whichever works best for you.

Big friggin' mistake, in my book: don't sacrifice valuable experience on heavy jet aircraft (international or not) for something as frivolous as flight benefits if it is your career you are focused on, as opposed to a lifestyle choice. If you're clinging to a regional gig to keep those bennies when you could be off elsewhere making more money, doing more complex operations, and working in an environment where you could pig out on opportunities for growth, then have fun sitting at a regional for close to a decade before a major might finally feel that your candidacy just might beat out another applicant who has a higher quality of experience that could contribute immediately and in the long-run to their airline.

That was the longest run-on sentence ever written!
 
Have to agree with Kev, the experience I gained from a regional was second to none. The pay on the other hand.....
 
Well, the dispatcher pay at the regional level certainly isn't as bad as the FO pay at the same regional, in general terms. If you're single, you can scratch out a pretty decent standard of living on regional pay. If you're dragging a family around, it's gonna be tight, but doable if you can bag some overtime..

"My question is, are there certain airlines or companies that are more likely to hire candidates right out of dispatch school than others? (or have been known to do so) And on the flip side, are there ones that typically avoid rookies with no 'real world' experience and aren't even worth trying? "

Yes and yes. You should therefore apply to every opening you see anyway, no matter how remote the chances of getting in. Without looking at the sum of your experiences prior to dispatch, there are many companies that might look favorably at some of the things you did before your career change. In short, if you don't apply the answer will ALWAYS be no, so they are ALL worth trying. I know of at least one dispatcher at WN who is in his mid 20's. Certainly he didn't arrive at the door armed with a decade of regional experience. When you look closely, you'll find very few airlines that explicitly state a minimum level of experience in dispatch required to qualify, and those that do, in my opinion, are doing themselves a great disservice.

In a more general sense, airlines that routinely pick up greenhorns are the places like Mesa in PHX, Expressjet, possibly Air Wisconsin in ATW, any of the Republic Airways airlines in IND, Great Lakes in CYS, Skywest in SGU, Trans States somewhere in MO, Endeavor in MSP and a crap ton others I haven't listed. Here's a Wikipedia list of regional carriers. Quite literally, I would bookmark the employment section of EVERY ONE OF THESE and check them daily while in school. If one opens up a position, apply. Just for giggles, do the same with the majors.
 
Oops, I'll start again.

Let me make the case for cargo dispatching because I rarely hear much discussion about it here. I love my 135 DX job. Here's why.

My job has two parts. First, I monitor bid boards where freight forwarders post their need to move freight from point A to point B in a certain time period.

I need to determine whether the freight will fit in any of our aircraft (size and weight wise) and if so, whether we can get it to the destination within the customer's need time. Considerations include crew duty time and crew swapping possibility.

Once I determine that we can satisfy our customer's needs, I determine a price based on how close we are to the freight pick-up point and which aircraft types the freight will fit in. For example, if the freight can fit in a Metro and a Falcon, we'll reduce the price of our Falcon to be able to compete with the Metro.

If the customer books our aircraft, then I put on my DXer hat. Even though I technically don't have operational control like a 121 outfit, I treat my DX responsibilities like I am a 121 DXer. Why wouldn't I? We have about 20 pilots. I like our pilots. I want to do whatever I can to make their job - which is inherently difficult - as easy as possible.

I see or talk with our pilots on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. We send funny texts back and forth while they wait for freight. I know their idiosyncrasies and strive to keep them as well informed about WX, freight weight, and anything else possible. I care about our crew every bit as I would if we had 230 PAX on board.

We don't fly heavy aircraft. We fly aircraft with less than a 3-hour range that can't fly above a the tops of TSs. As a result, I'm pumping out two to four flight plans per aircraft per shift. I'm looking at WX and changes in WX sometimes on a minute-by-minute basis.

My life is rarely dull!

The benefits to me are endless daily variety, a better starting salary (22k vs 40k per year); I don't have to think about moving in two years (I'm 53 and need to stay in DFW where my elderly parents are). I know our pilots personally and get great satisfaction from making their job as carefree as possible.

The most likely hiring for green cargo DXers are YIP, PTK, ADS, HYI, MKE, TOL, NQA, ELP.
 
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My advice; get into a passenger regional first. You'll learn a number of things, not least of which will be whether or not you can (or should) work as a flight dispatcher. You'll deal with high workload for low pay. The last sentence is a big reason why you're most likely to get on with one right out of school. Turnover is constant with dispatchers moving from one step to the next, or getting out of the biz altogether.

Plan on at least 1-2 years before taking your next step. So, even if you get an offer at a carrier who is based in Florida (sorry, I think it's horrific - as previously discussed), know that it won't be for that long, and eventually you can take the international supplemental to major route or whichever works best for you.

Big friggin' mistake, in my book: don't sacrifice valuable experience on heavy jet aircraft (international or not) for something as frivolous as flight benefits if it is your career you are focused on, as opposed to a lifestyle choice. If you're clinging to a regional gig to keep those bennies when you could be off elsewhere making more money, doing more complex operations, and working in an environment where you could pig out on opportunities for growth, then have fun sitting at a regional for close to a decade before a major might finally feel that your candidacy just might beat out another applicant who has a higher quality of experience that could contribute immediately and in the long-run to their airline.

That was the longest run-on sentence ever written!

One thing to add to what you said is to be flexible and willing to take risks. Advancing in this business means taking risks. I know of many people that have gotten hired at a major with only a few years experience. One or two had close family connections in the airline but most got to that point from taking risks and also building connections. Even many of the people I know that moved to a major after spending a long time at a regional needed to take the risk of moving from their comfort zone and starting over at the bottom at a new place.

There are many people that get comfortable and want to take the safest route possible. Be careful with what risks you do take but if you see an opportunity that has worked for people in recent history to get to a major, jump all over that position if offered. Major airlines will hire from a wide range of sources but some sources do get preferential treatment over others. It all depends on what the hiring people at the airline are thinking at a given time. No matter what you do it is a risk and can easily not work out as you planned so you need to be dedicated and flexible in choosing your career path.

One thing Greenhorns need to know is all your hard work and efforts may be all for nothing in terms of getting to a major. Many people seemingly do the right things and have a good reputation in their current company but for whatever reason never can get hired by a major. A large percentage of new dispatchers never make it to a major. Many never make it to a LCC either. A good number do get stuck at regionals and supplementals. If you do not want to be at a regional or supplemental long term, have a good back up plan outside aviation just in case.
 
Not all folks who don't go to a major are "stuck". In the airline business, seniority is everything. I know of quite a few folks who are very happy working for their regional, sitting towards the top of the list, getting the shifts they like, making decent money and living in a town that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I would really caution against buying into the rhetoric that the only reason to get into a regional is to get out. If your aspiration is to go to work for a major, that's fine, but don't think that the dude who has been at X regional for 15 years is there because he can't leave.

I would say that, unless there is some issue with your background or your attitude, you WILL get a crack at moving up. Obviously if your aspiration is to work for a specific airline, it'll be a slower road
 
Not all folks who don't go to a major are "stuck". In the airline business, seniority is everything. I know of quite a few folks who are very happy working for their regional, sitting towards the top of the list, getting the shifts they like, making decent money and living in a town that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I would really caution against buying into the rhetoric that the only reason to get into a regional is to get out. If your aspiration is to go to work for a major, that's fine, but don't think that the dude who has been at X regional for 15 years is there because he can't leave.

I would say that, unless there is some issue with your background or your attitude, you WILL get a crack at moving up. Obviously if your aspiration is to work for a specific airline, it'll be a slower road

I do miss the lower cost lifestyle aspect of regional life. My last apartment when I was at a regional, I was paying under $600/month for a nice sized 2 bedroom with a detached garage. That is something you definitely won't see in a big city....although I am still glad I made the move to the majors. For me it was the right thing to do. But several people I worked with are still at that regional and seem very happy there.
 
Obviously if your aspiration is to work for a specific airline, it'll be a slower road

My advice. Don't specialize. I did that for 3 years and it potentially cost me moving to the majors sooner. In fact I ended up working for the major I initially said I would never work for and couldn't be happier that I am.
 
MT said:
My advice. Don't specialize. I did that for 3 years and it potentially cost me moving to the majors sooner. In fact I ended up working for the major I initially said I would never work for and couldn't be happier that I am.

Funny how that works sometimes, eh? Congrats ;-)
 
As a newbie to ADX, and just finding myself fresh out of training, I can add that finding a job as a newly qualified dispatcher depends on how motivated you are. I have absolutely NO AVIATION experience either except for a short stint with Northwest Airlines.

My recent experience with finding a job as a newbie is as follows:

Before I started my training, keeping in mind that not only was I going to the class but also I was determined to get my license, I started applying for jobs. The theory was that it would take HR a bit to sift through every submitted app. That being said, I took advantage of this delay to beat any application deadline especially for the airlines that don't post job openings often (sometimes ADX jobs are posted for only a few hours!). I also took advantage of this lag, knowing that if an airline got back to me, I likely would have a little bit of time in training under my belt.

Next, I continued to apply for jobs while I was in training. This is tough to do considering there is a lot of work to do in training, but it can be done. After all, the goal for going to dispatch training is to land a job, right?

Finally, and I am not kidding when I say this, I was interviewed and hired for a 121 carrier inside of about two weeks into my training. To echo what pljenkins said, and correct me if I am wrong but I believe he is involved in hiring for a major airline, my airline was eager to hire me because like most middle aged professionals going through a career change, I had a ton of experience outside of aviation that would be beneficial to any airline. Needless to say, my new airline new I was brand new to the profession and when I interviewed, they weren't interested in what I had learned from my training at that point - they really wanted to know how I could apply my previous experience to the dispatch role.

If you find yourself not having a lot of professional experience, you are going to have to make the necessary connections from your previous roles to help HR or those who are interviewing you with how that small amount of experience can assist with dispatching. Though those roles will be different from a dispatcher, there are always basic-core elements that will transcend into dispatching such as multi-tasking, working in a high stress fast paced environment, professionalism such as having good performance evaluations, no disciplinary actions, etc.

On another note, as I was going through my training, several of my classmates did not apply for work. Instead, they wanted to wait until they were done with training before they started in on the hard core job search. I think that this is a mistake. Even though there is a lot of work to be done in training, many of them thought searching for a job was too time consuming and took away from studying. Depending on the person, this may very well be true but it only hurts you in the end for not taking advantage of applying for open jobs. We had 18 students that started the class. I would estimate that only about 1/3 of the class applied to jobs during training. The other 1/3 was already employed for an airline. This left about six students who were not taking advantage of applying for jobs. I am convinced to a point that even those that were applying for jobs, were only doing it on a limited basis. That being said, and I am sorry to put it this way, but your classmates are your competition in the job market so take advantage of applying while you are in class when your colleagues aren't on the hunt.

Additionally, where I went to training, the staff helped immensely in crafting and perfecting resumes that are acceptable/preferred for the airline industry. Also, the school routinely circulates a list of open jobs to all students and alumni. Some airlines even contacted my school looking to interview students for a position. The training center was pretty proactive submitting the entire classes resumes to other airlines that had job openings. Even though a lot of the jobs posted were looking for one year of experience at a minimum, don't let this dissuade you. I was actually interviewed for a dispatch supervisory role my first week of training and I had never seen the inside of an operations center. This just goes to show you that regardless of what the job specs are, apply - you never know. If you don't apply, the answer will ALWAYS be NO!

As you can see, there is interest in hiring new dispatchers. You just have to work for it to make it happen. Case in point, there is a former student at my training facility that has not found a job in about a year after getting their license. This person had too high expectations with each of the jobs they interviewed for and has yet to accept employment anywhere. They have relied solely on the school to help them land a job and have not done the ground work on their own to find employment.

On a final note, I have found that this job is generally in demand. Though the major airlines may not necessarily be hiring, that should not be an indicator of the job market. A ton of work is available in so many different areas that require you to have your airman's certificate, not just dispatching. I have also found that the dispatch community is rather small when all things are considered for other professions. That being said, when a lot of work is available and you have a fairly small pool of qualified candidates applying for jobs, taking a new guy fresh out of training makes sense. Also, you have your license. This means, even though you may not have a lot of experience, you are just as qualified as me and all the other dispatchers on this forum to do the job. How well you do it is another issue, but still you are just as qualified as the rest of us. From one newbie to another, drink up pal and enjoy the ride and APPLY!
 
As always thank you everyone! I appreciate all the pointers. I'm open to any avenue, almost any location, and whatever route makes the most sense regarding a successful, rewarding career. Regional, major, boxes or people..as long as I'm sending some big beautiful airplanes into the sky and getting paid for it, I'm gonna be a happy guy:) That was an inspirational post Macr3ady, thanks. I'm in full agreement regarding staying ahead of the application process. Workload will obviously be high during school but keeping on top of the job hunt seems right up there in terms of urgency. How soon before you started school did you start firing them off? About a month?

And that's also encouraging about how my non-aviation work history can actually play as an advantage or a strength in some ways. I have a lot of experience (editing, shooting, producing) with hard deadlines and constantly changing situations in major newsrooms across the country and also with live NFL broadcasting. These are pretty large and complex operations centers with several different departments constantly working together in often very fast moving stressful situations. I feel like all of that can really translate pretty well into this profession. (At least what I know so far about it). Random question: does the possibility exist to work in Europe? Do they ever hire US graduates over their own citizens? I'm asking mainly because half my family lives in Italy and wondered if that could be a crazy wild card option (or last resort) at some point. I've read that a lot of foreign based carriers don't require a license so I thought maybe an FAA one would be an advantage. Once again, thanks!

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I would start firing off resumes after the first week or so. Most airlines work at a glacial pace when it comes to hiring so do not be surprised if it takes a month for them to get back to you, and by that time you'll be in the home stretch.

As for work overseas, I'm not sure. I do know they don't have dispatchers in the same manner we do here.
 
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