Opinions of the school - How well did it meet your expectations?

thebot said:
Thanks for all of the reply's thus far... i'm still no closer on my decision as of yet.. but

Assuming I have my CFI in 10 months, how long am I looking to instruct before I am "attractive" to the regionals? I know min hours vary, but I don't want to count on min's ... but a more realistic figure... what does it take to be attractive to them? What is the ideal candidate?
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You're enthusiasm is good, but I'd take this one step at a time. Long term planning in an industry where things change from day to day, is going to dissapoint you...and that's all it's going to do.

There are a lot of factors that change (and that have changed in the past). For instance, ask anyone who was around about 15 years ago and they'll tell you that you needed over 2500 hours just to get a regional job. Today the minumums are around 600 hours, but they could go up, or they could go down....or regionals will be completely eliminated and you won't have to worry about being competetive for the regionals.

As for a hard number on how long you're going to have to instruct, a lot depends on the minimums the airlines are looking for. It also depends quite a bit on how many students you can get in the course of a year. My first year and a half as an instructor was spent sitting on a couch on the off chance that there would be a maintenance flight or a discovery flight. I spent nearly 3 years instructing because business was slow. Now, I have old students of mine who have been instructing for 6 months calling for recommendations.

I instructed at flight safety and found it to be a top notch company and flight school. Their prices are high, but you get good training. That is what I would concentrate on right now. In fact, that's they only thing you can count on right now. Get your training done, and start working as a pilot. It may take you 10 months, or it may take you 3 years to get to that point. Then it might take you another 2 months or another 5 years to get to a regional, or a major or whatever's around at that point.

Now, that's the answer I have...it's obviously not the answer you want...so here's the one you want......

after getting your CFI (pvt-cfi at flight safety), you'll have approximately 300 hours. Minimums for most regionals are right around 1000 total time and 100 multi...give or take a few hundred hours. Figure on about 60 hours a month of flying (it's a conservative number for the situation now, but very optimistic for a while when I was instructing). That's about a year of instructing to meet the minimums. So, 22 months from now, if the regionals are as desperate as they are now, you'll meet their minimums. As for being competetive, it will always change. Read some of the interview gouges. You'll probably see all instructors interviewing recently; Compared to a year ago when there were a lot of pilots from other airlines with gobs of 121 experience mixed in with 1 or 2 instructors. right now, 1000/100 is fine. A year ago, however, 1000/100 as an instructor would get you a pat on the back and a "good work, son", as you walk out the door.

Take this one step at a time, and enjoy the journey. You may find that you want to go into some other facet of aviation flying. You may find that aviation is a great hobby, but not a career. You may find that driving boats is more enjoyable that any kind of airplane. Focus and determination are two very good qualities to have, just don't limit yourself to one outcome.......

back to my regularly scheduled frosty malted beverage....sorry for being so long winded....:D
 
thanks for the reply launchpad,

I have one other question for you, you mentioned that your first bit of instructing ws spent on the couch, that is one concern of mine, was that while you were at Flightsafety? or were you at another school at that stage?
 
thebot said:
thanks for the reply launchpad,

I have one other question for you, you mentioned that your first bit of instructing ws spent on the couch, that is one concern of mine, was that while you were at Flightsafety? or were you at another school at that stage?
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Nope, that was at Flightsafety.....I earned my CFI shortly after september 11th, and then got hired and placed in a pool. Finished off my II and MEI and delivered pizzas until june of the next year before they started instructor standardization classes. Some people went elsewhere and came back later, some just left, and some unambitious slackers (like myself) just stayed in town and took in all it had to offer for 8 months (bobby's, kelly's, the patio, the menu, the riverside, et al).

From what I hear right now, they're short on instructors and everyone has 10 students.......I also heard that before I decided to go to Florida to get my CFI. Back then everyone had 10 students and instructors were leaving like crazy...........must be that cyclical stuff people keep on tellin' me about. You can never tell what's gonna happen next week, much less next year....especially in this bidness...

The couch was comfortable though....:D


Just a quick question for you....are you a career changer, or are you just graduating high school looking for the fastest way to grow up???
 
launchpad said:
Nope, that was at Flightsafety.....I earned my CFI shortly after september 11th, and then got hired and placed in a pool. Finished off my II and MEI and delivered pizzas until june of the next year before they started instructor standardization classes.
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Is that you Geis?
 
launchpad said:
Nope, that was at Flightsafety.....I earned my CFI shortly after september 11th, and then got hired and placed in a pool. Finished off my II and MEI and delivered pizzas until june of the next year before they started instructor standardization classes. Some people went elsewhere and came back later, some just left, and some unambitious slackers (like myself) just stayed in town and took in all it had to offer for 8 months (bobby's, kelly's, the patio, the menu, the riverside, et al).

From what I hear right now, they're short on instructors and everyone has 10 students.......I also heard that before I decided to go to Florida to get my CFI. Back then everyone had 10 students and instructors were leaving like crazy...........must be that cyclical stuff people keep on tellin' me about. You can never tell what's gonna happen next week, much less next year....especially in this bidness...

The couch was comfortable though....:D


Just a quick question for you....are you a career changer, or are you just graduating high school looking for the fastest way to grow up???
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I am a career changer. I am in my late 20's with a BS degree business admin / finance and i'm also in my MBA program. - So my story is very similar to many other career changers. However, I am not married, and do not own a home.

I'm in a decent financial position, in regard to savings, so I should be able to do this full time, which is what I would want to do given my age.

Almost everyone I know has been very supportive in my decision to switch careers as they are well aware of my discontent with corporate. The biggest mistake I made in my career was not doing an internship in college prior to enrolling in my MBA program. Had I done so, I probably would have recognized my fustration earlier and had moved into my flying career much sooner.

And while I haven't "lived" the life of an airline pilot, I have a close relative that is one and has been in the industry for quite sometime. So i've seen his life first hand and we have spoken about his career for many years. So I feel confident that I'm as well versed in the lifestly as one can possibly be without actaully living in it :)
 
The decision I face is which school. This is probably one of the most difficult decisions I have been faced with in my professional career. I have already seen FSA, RAA, and DCA. Personally, after seeing the schools, and evaluating the bonuses of each school; FSA top'ed my list by far. That being said, i'd like to see Ari-Ben simply because I hear its less expensive and people here have told me to check them out. The only things I can say for sure is:

1) I want to go to a part 141 school. I like a structured learning environment as I have spent many years in school and I feel comfortable in that type of environment. I don't want to do a 90 day program because I want to learn the information and apply it.. and for me i'd rather spread the training out over the course of 6-10 months so that I can absorb as much of the fundamentals (PPL, INST, MEI, commercial) and be able to apply them consistently throughout my career. - Basically, this is the one part of my future career that I do believe I should spend the most time in, so a 10 month program seems fitting.


2) I want attend a school somewhere in Florida or the southwest because of the year round flying weather. I have lived in Florida before as that is where I went to school for part of my undergrad. I have also lived up north where I know the meaning of "seasonal" flying, as the weather here is not conducive to a person looking to go full time in their training. (especially someone like me who doesn't have their PPL) - It would take ages to get all of the flight time required due to the crappy weather up in my area of the country, which even the local FBO's have confirmed with me.

3) I want to go to a school that has NO shortage of students, as I intend on instructing at the school from which I graduate from. I don't want to spend too much down time on the couch, but rather be out there instructing ... and getting my hours ASAP. - no pun intended for those that did spend many-a days on the couch, but I can't afford (time wise) to waste 3 years of my professional life watching ESPN in the crew lounge waiting for a student to walk in. I need to be earning my hours so going somewhere that doesn't have a shortage of students is a big factor for me.

4) I want to attend a school that has a great reputation for producing great pilots who are well prepared for their careers, and if possible, offers some type of advantage to its graduates. IE.. Helps them get a job at the regionals via interviews / connections / good rep with the airlines etc.. etc..

Several of my pilot friends / relatives who work at the majors are pushing the FlightSafety route because they feel that (given my age) I might have a slight edge among other job candidates. (Not because the training is necessarily always better) but rather that graduating from their program will set me on PAR with others who will probably have more TT than I. Their reasoning is that FSA has a name, and are well known for their training. Basically they feel that any airline who receives my resume will at least have confidence that I can pass their preliminary training (indoc) and not be a "drop out".. hence I'm a safe bet which someone here also stated in a previous post. - I just wish I had some confirmation in that because there are people on this board that feel differently, yet my pilot buddies who all did their training a long time ago at local FBO's are telling me that name does matter now a days, and that the airlines will most likely take that into account to some extent when deciding on a candidate. - Which is why I haven't made a choice in schools yet. Do they or don't they? I know full well that many / most airline pilots come from small unknown schools or the military... but that doesn't answer the question if people who do attend the larger academies (like FSA) get some type of advantage in the hiring process because of the reputation of that school?

I know that FSA has a great program that is rigorous, challenging, and well respected. With that being said, I want to know if that stands out at all, and will attending such a program over another institution like Ari-Ben give me any type of advantage at all? (example) - I graduate FSA, and instruct with them to the tune of 800 hours. Person B goes to X school and has 1100 TT. We both apply at Skywest which has a min 600 TT req.... we both get an A+ on the interview, we both get outstanding marks on the sim test etc.. the interviewer likes us both, (both are strikingly smart, well rounded, nice individuals) Who gets the job in this type of situation? What is the interviewer looking for at this point? Is it all going to be based on TT or would the interviewer look at training (part 141 vs part 61), would they look at the school attended, if so would FSA (or any other school) stand out over Ari-ben, or skymates, or XYZ FBO?

BTW Is there something on the PPL or commerical that state if you have a part 141 or 61? I'm assuming that its not stated on any offical paperwork... so if i'm right, is that something that you just casually add to the resume?

These are the important questions I'm trying to find an answer to as it would make my decision a whole heck of a lot easier. I'm not opposed to spending the extra $15k to attend FSA ... IF... it gives me some kind of advantage in the eyes of the airline....and / or I get my hours faster because there are more students to instruct. If there is no such advantage at all (in any way) then I'd MUCH rather go to a less expensive part 141 school that will save me $15k.

In my situation, I'd feel ok with spending the extra 15k if I get a slight advantage over someone that has a similar or somewhat higher amount of TT from a lesser known school. My reasoning comes from my financial background which is this: Will the extra 15k to attend a stellar academy give me extra perks against another job candidate? This translates into a higher ROI (return on investment). For me, that ROI isn't going to be in the form of money because of the low starting salary at the regionals, but rather the ROI in my case would be the advantages I have over someone else (who goes to school X) with the exact TT or more TT as myself. - Hence once again this comes back to the dropout rate and the Airlines faith that the candidate will "most likely" pass their training curriculum based on the training they received from which ever school.

- Looking at the corporate world, that is why people that attend Harvard etc.. have a slight or sometimes significant advantage over other schools when it comes to getting a job / passing the interview. Employers feel (sometimes falsely) that a graduate from Harvard will be easier to train / learn/ excel, because that person graduated from a school that sets very high standards, and is known for being challenging.

I want to defend this post by saying that a graduate from any ivy league school or flight academy for that matter is in no way better, more intelligent, talented etc... all it states is... "If they can pass a difficult program like (insert ivy league school here) then they can defiantly pass our training program" - AND that to a company is worthwhile, as training an employee does cost the company a lot of money.. and dropout's / quitters are a waste of company resources. Its basically a statistics game, they are betting that someone from ABC school will have a higher pass rate than someone at XYZ school simply based on the schools reputation / curriculum. - it's all numbers and unfortunately its the real world and many companies operate under that philosophy. I'm not sure if that generally apply's to the airline industry or not. Some say yes, some say no.. I don't know who to believe?

If I was 22 and just starting this process my decision would be easy, i'd attend the cheaper school... because I have several years to get all of the hours needed to be competitive among my peers in the job market. The reality is that I'm not 22, and for me if going to a well respected institution will give me some kind of leg up against someone with similar or more TT than myself, I'd cough up the money to attend that school given my situation. - I say that knowing that I only have 28-29 years of work (depending on my graduation date) before retirement. I will need to work at the regionals for at least 7-12 years until I have a real shot at the majors, which then that gives me roughly 16-20 years to build up a "standard" retirement (that's assuming I'm not furloughed). Compare that to someone who has 35-37 years to get to the same point. That extra 7 years is a lot of time that I don't have. - So I hope this explains my situation, I'm not looking to "bypass" the system, but rather give myself every extra advantage possible to compete with someone that has similar or more TT than I.
 
TheBot. I can't answer your question since I'm in a similar life position to you. I will say I look forward to the person who carefully reads your questions and gives an asnwer based on his/her personaly experience as a Regional, Frieght, or Major Airline pilot OR an airline HR person who actually works for XYZ airline (that would be great!).

I am considering AriBen, Falcon, and Flight Safety right now as my top three choices and I have the exact same questions. Well written and I too hope to see a very factual response.
 
thebot, I'm not going to quote your entire post because that would be annoying. .. But I'll do my best to answer some of your questions.

It seems that you're biggest concerns are 1. reputation of the school; 2. the ability for that reputation to get you a job in the field and; 3. the school that can get you to your goal in the least amount of time.

as for the third question, I think I've already answered that. Most any flight academy (FSI included) will get you the licenses in a minimal amount of time. After that, the market determines how long you'll have to work before you get to your goal (airline, cargo, instructing, whatever...)

The first two concerns are common for people like you who are changing from careers completely unrelated to aviation. I will step up and say aviation is a completely different animal than anything you have ever seen (or will ever see in the future). This is one of the reasons I recommend going into this with an open mind and take things step by step instead of going in with a specific goal.

Now, the reputation of the school and their "advertised" ability to get you a job are completely worthless to you. What does matter is how devoted you are to becoming a professional pilot. That includes learning as much as you can from books, instructors and flights. It also includes the willingness to expose yourself to as many experiences as possible. A lot of this comes from flying for fun outside of the training environment. Being a well rounded pilot is much more important in the eyes of an interviewer than what flight school you attended. So in the end, it really doesn't matter what school you go to if you're only looking at reputation. In fact, I know of at least one airline that doesn't even look at mass resumes sent from flight academies.

What airlines are looking for is a complex and almost dizzying array of qualities, both as a pilot and a person. In the business world, schools and internships really sway the decision of whether to hire or not hire. Not so much at the airlines. Now, with that being said, different schools will help you attain those qualities from the get go, and some won't. With the so-called "mom and pop" schools, you may or may not get some of the qualities airlines are looking for, namely discipline. At a school like FlightSafety, DCA, and other academies, the entire environment is disciplined from the beginning. The other qualities airlines look for are only going to come from experience, especially experience from working as a pilot.

So basically, the school you go to really doesn't matter based on reputation in the industry. A license is a license is a license. And no, part 61 or part 141 doesn't get put on a license. In the end it all depends on you. If you can become a disciplined professional on your own, then save the money....if you can't or you just want to get more training (i.e. upset recovery, CRM, high altitude training), go to the academies. I instructed at FlightSafety for quite a while, and I will say they do their best to get you as much knowledge as they possibly can. They also work hard to make you as well rounded as they can in a compressed time span.

Like I said before, make sure you go into this with the knowledge that it might not be for you. Make sure you also go into this with an open mind...aviation has many different directions to go in that might fit you better. I know of several people that were instructing there with me at the time that were hell bent on going to the airlines. A few of them are now working as professional instructors at the sim centers. A few of them are flying at corporate outfits and having a ball. A few of them are flying cargo or throwing people out of the plane (jump plane pilots). The bottom line is enjoy the flying portion of it before you think of anything else. Work to become the most well rounded pilot you can be and the jobs will come later.....you have quite a bit of time to think about that kind of stuff.

Remember, this industry isn't exaclty the epitome of a stable anything. Be prepared for that...the situation is going to be different 2 years from now when you're ready to apply to wherever you want to work. We might just be back to the early 90's where you need 4000 hours for a regional job. or we might be back to the 70's where United was taking people out of high school with no flight experience for Flight Engineer positions.......
 
Oh ya...you have plenty of time. A few of my students were in their mid to late thirties, and at least one was in his 40's. In my interview group at the airline I work at now, there were a couple guys in their 50's. In my newhire class, there were 3 guys over 40........all at a regional airline....So you'll be fine.
 
Thanks Launchpad,

You advise along with everyone else's helps a bunch. I know I want a part 141 school, because I like the discipline, it is what I am used to with my college background. I'm used to being told that I need to have chapter 4, 5, and 6 finished tomorrow. That being said I did take some extra courses to get my minor in finance via my schools correspondence program and I did great doing it on my own. I'm not sure if I retained as much info when compared to my on campus courses but I got the minor regardless. Overall, I know 141 is the way i'd like to go because I like the classroom setting, I want to be able to ask questions, hear my peers questions, and have information taught to me in an organized fashion. Also, seeing that i'm rather "green" to aviation, I think learning all of the fundamentals will benefit me. I'm the type of person that doesn't just want to know how to set a clock, I want to know how it works.

Same applies to airplanes, when I was studying my private pilot books and they speak of drag, lift, thrust, weight... I wanted to know everything I could about them, and how they work, why they affected the aircraft, how to calculate the limits of these.. etc..

As for the school.. I don't know which one is the best bang for the buck given the part 141 schools? I don't want ot burn the money for the sake of burining it as I don't have a money tree :D With that said, I do have some savings.

(hypothetical situation) -

A) You love flying, you love traveling

B) You are pretty sure you want to go to the regional's and then the Majors (all passenger + cago such as UPS / FED EX / DHL) -

C) You want a 141 school

D) You are in your late 20's .. and want a career / benefits etc...

E) You are concerned about retirement, and making sure you have the ability to save via personal savings, pensions (if they exist lol), and 401k's etc..

F) No other realistic career options get you excited.

G) Want to instruct at a place where you won't be on the couch much (a busy institution).. preferably the school you attended as you probably have the highest chance of getting hired there.

If it were you... and you thought the same way as me given the above paragraph, and you had enough in savings that you could pretty much cover the cost of the training (very little in the way of loans.. accumulating no more than 10k or so in total debt) needed for PPL to CFI ... which 141 school given what you know of them... would you attend?

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to answer here on the public forums.

Thanks so much man, I appreciate it !!!
 
"Is it all going to be based on TT or would the interviewer look at training (part 141 vs part 61), would they look at the school attended, if so would FSA (or any other school) stand out over Ari-ben, or skymates, or XYZ FBO"

I think you're kidding yourself if you think what school or FAR you trained at under gonna mean anything to a Skywest interviewer. We should ask SkyWestChris at this forum, since he is one. By the way, their mins aren't 600, it's 1000/100.

"BTW Is there something on the PPL or commerical that state if you have a part 141 or 61? I'm assuming that its not stated on any offical paperwork... so if i'm right, is that something that you just casually add to the resume"

It's not on any paperwork and nobody cares. You can put it on your resume if you want, but...nobody cares....
 
Bot, I'm not gonna quote your whole post again, but I have no problems saying that with what you listed, FlightSafety's program will definitely start you off properly. They go very in depth in the classroom, they make you earn your licenses, and you have a good time doing it.

As an instructor there, you get a pretty supportive environment, with decent pay and benefits, and a gob of multi time (not very easy to come by as an instructor...I left with about 750 hours Multi).

Now the real reason I went to FSI was mainly because of their corporate reputation. I had talked to people at other large flight schools...I went to embry-riddle for college, and I visited many flight schools where I live (Los Angeles). It was only for my CFI, II and MEI, but I drove out to Florida without visiting the school, the town, or even the state, because of FlightSafety's reputation as a flight training company. You won't get screwed (A la ATA and some other schools that just close down and take your money). You have the option to pay as you go or throw it all down at once. The instructors and staff there are very supportive. And most importantly, they have several options for you to further your career (some of them might not be very kosher or looked favorably upon by other people, but they are options none the less).

Bottom line is, go take a tour if you haven't. Ask to maybe take a discovery flight. Talk to some of the students there. If you like what you see and hear, go for it. Worry about your training for now. After you get your licenses, you'll have a few more roads to take than you do now, but you gotta get to that point first. PM me if you have any other questions about training in general.....
 
DE727UPS said:
"Is it all going to be based on TT or would the interviewer look at training (part 141 vs part 61), would they look at the school attended, if so would FSA (or any other school) stand out over Ari-ben, or skymates, or XYZ FBO"

I think you're kidding yourself if you think what school or FAR you trained at under gonna mean anything to a Skywest interviewer. We should ask SkyWestChris at this forum, since he is one. By the way, their mins aren't 600, it's 1000/100.



"BTW Is there something on the PPL or commerical that state if you have a part 141 or 61? I'm assuming that its not stated on any offical paperwork... so if i'm right, is that something that you just casually add to the resume"

It's not on any paperwork and nobody cares. You can put it on your resume if you want, but...nobody cares....
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Thanks for the clarification DE727, I wasn't sure if its something worth adding to the resume or not. I hope none of you feel as if I am undermining the value of the FBO, my relative attended an FBO and has reached the top of his career via that route as he is at one of the most stable airlines out there. So I would never dispute that an FBO isn't a great option for most. - I just know that he said if I pick that option i'm probably in for a significantly longer haul which, given my age, he strongly advised against it.

Regarding the Skywest example in my previous post, i used some random figures for both the numbers and the company. I just wanted some clarification that the school attended would/wouldn't have any baring whatsoever on an airlines opinion of a potential candidate.

In my previous long winded post, I know in corporate (totally different industry), name does carry weight. I also strongly disliked it when some ivy league guy got a job over one of my employee recommendations at the company. Typically, at one point or another I'd have some direct contact with these guys as I was head of a good sized unit in the company, and some of them rocked, and others were less than par.. but none the less my old company loved its ivy league'ers - the few of us that wern't ivy guys lucked out I guess. So now, I'm potentially finding myself on the other side of the fence, and possibly relating to them somehow... looking to see if a name has any baring. I guess if nothing else, after seeing how difficult it was to get a foot in the door at my last company, I can see how any advantage one can earn is sometimes worth it.

Personally, I always tried to evaluate every qualified candidate, regardless of school, degree, or background experience, etc.. as I believe everyone has a strength, and everyone has something to offer.. so why not give them a fair chance... but unfortunatly, most of the world doesn't operate that way, just as my superiors proved at my last job.

Didn't something similar happen over at your company DE? Unless I am mistaken I was told that ( a long while back) there was a some guy in charge of hiring or screening that really took a preference to military guys (because he was military)... and over time more and more pilot positions were being filled with military vs/ civilian pilots... and someone finally took notice of the abnormal amount of military vs civilian new-hires at the company. I was told that the problem had eventually been corrected and HR took a more active roll in the screening process etc.. but I guess that's just another example of some type of name / institution recognition.
 
Launchpad,

Thanks again for the reply !

I checked out FSA a few months ago and loved it, even more so after seeing some of the other schools out there.

Naturally, i've been leaning more towards FSA not only because of my relative has highly suggested it, but I can't seem to find any real negative info about them other than price. Also, the tour alone was amazing, it was all one on one, they spent a lot of time with me, and offered to let me lose and talk to the students. (unfortunatly I didn't get the chance to run around and speak with the students because it was so late in the day by the time my tour ended)

But the fact that they offered me the oppertunity spoke volumes about the school... (in a very positive way) The staff was great, actaully beyond great, I felt at home there ! Everyone was energized, nice and seemed genuinely happy.

The only thing that is any concern of mine is the price. Granted, they are slightly less expensive than most of the other big academies that I toured (RAA, DCA), but still its pricey.

I gave FSA a 9.5 out of 10 on my grading scale ( 1 being the worst 10 being the best) FSA was by far the highest quality school that i've seen. A 10 would have been FlightSafety priced at 45k total :) for PPL to CFI. Then again, after reading everything that you wrote, whatever the price it seems to be the best.

I'll PM you with any other questions.

Thanks
 
"Didn't something similar happen over at your company DE?"

I haven't heard that one. They were hiring warm bodies back in 90. Many of the guys with the best looking resumes considered being a freight dawg beneath them.

In reference to your name carries weight thoughts...

I went to Embry Riddle because they said name carries weight. This was before the internet was invented. To this day, I don't think there is any bigger name in aviation than Embry Riddle and that includes FSA. Both those institutions may have some hiring agreements with a couple of regionals and internships but as far as saying the name carries weight, in general, I don't think it does unless the guy interviewing you went there, too.

Maybe you could go to FSA and instruct there and get on at a regional at 800 hours. You could go to ATP or Skymates and do the same at 1000 hours. You could do a no name FBO and do it in 1200 hours, assuming you can get the multi. The big question is what price is worth instructing six months less?

I can say going to Embry Riddle for the name was a big waste of time. Nobody cares. The FBO guy might not have access to internships or hiring agreements but what do those things really buy you? Is it worth six months or so?

I think FSA has a very structured program, as do a few of the other academies. You won't find that at ATP, Skymates, or an FBO. If you need the structure, as you say you do, then you should stick with an FSA type program. I just wouldn't expect potential employers to part the waters when they see you went to FSA. They didn't for ERAU guys, contrary to what I was told.
 
Thanks again DE272 !

I think that was exactily what I was looking for. What you said gives me the peace of mind to still keep my options open for the moment and not to be so worried regarding the legacy of a school, as it lets me still keep other factors and considerations on the table. I might have gotten a little hung up on the name / airline alliances issue.

From what I gather, in the end, regardless of school attened one can get to their destination, some might be able to do it in less time than others, but nothing is for certain.
 
DE727UPS said:
"Didn't something similar happen over at your company DE?"

I haven't heard that one. They were hiring warm bodies back in 90. Many of the guys with the best looking resumes considered being a freight dawg beneath them.

In reference to your name carries weight thoughts...

I went to Embry Riddle because they said name carries weight. This was before the internet was invented. To this day, I don't think there is any bigger name in aviation than Embry Riddle and that includes FSA. Both those institutions may have some hiring agreements with a couple of regionals and internships but as far as saying the name carries weight, in general, I don't think it does unless the guy interviewing you went there, too.

Maybe you could go to FSA and instruct there and get on at a regional at 800 hours. You could go to ATP or Skymates and do the same at 1000 hours. You could do a no name FBO and do it in 1200 hours, assuming you can get the multi. The big question is what price is worth instructing six months less?

I can say going to Embry Riddle for the name was a big waste of time. Nobody cares. The FBO guy might not have access to internships or hiring agreements but what do those things really buy you? Is it worth six months or so?

I think FSA has a very structured program, as do a few of the other academies. You won't find that at ATP, Skymates, or an FBO. If you need the structure, as you say you do, then you should stick with an FSA type program. I just wouldn't expect potential employers to part the waters when they see you went to FSA. They didn't for ERAU guys, contrary to what I was told.
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DE, I know you and I have battled this one out many times but.........

This kid has a 95% greater chance of getting the training he deserves and is paying for by going to one of the schools with a PROVEN reputation for QUALITY of training in the industry. FSA, Riddle, and UND are the TOP three schools that have "probably" never failed a student with respect to quality training where everything is taught right the first time and everything is covered well above the PTS.

Not to say that there are not a "few" good small FBO's out there with some decent instructors but, his chances of finding one are slim.

THEBOT...... I personally have flown out of and trained at several small FBO schools for various reasons. After attending FSA where the bar is set extremely high, I found pretty much all of the FBO operations to be lacking in standards, structure, and overall safety (maintenance and flying). They were pretty much a free for all for the instructors. During my check outs in the Seminole at two of the schools, the instructors not only didn't use the checklist but didn't really have one worth using. I was a bit unsure how one of the instructors even passed his multi ride. He did sign off my checkout in just under an hour though and did compliment my flying.

Point being....... Go where you know you will get quality training. I know guy's that have spent more the FBO route than I did at FSA. It really can go either way and is up to you on what you will spend.

Good luck...

ILS
 
thebot, I'm sure you have noticed already, but if not I think it fair to point out that CLR4ILS is (or was, not sure of current status) a flight instructor at Flight Safety.
 
I think you're kidding yourself if you think what school or FAR you trained at under gonna mean anything to a Skywest interviewer. We should ask SkyWestChris at this forum, since he is one. By the way, their mins aren't 600, it's 1000/100.
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I'll attest to that statement. Dosen't matter to me where someone got his or her training. What that person did for the 700-800 hours after that matters to me. I have interviewed those from all over the place, 141, 61, university. I haven't noticed a trend of those that are better than others.

There are certain schools where many of our applicants come from, but that is more a matter of networking with current Skywest pilots than the name of a school.
 
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