On Shutting Down Your Students

You guys are right, of course. If a student asks specifically for you to abuse him, cool! The customer is always right! Then, of course, he can go home put on his gimp mask and have his mistress flog him. The rest of us want a peaceful and clam learning environment.

I'm not to excited about sending this to NAFTI. The last one I sent was summarily ignored. Guess I'm not thick-skinned enough. As McFly says, "I just don't think I can take that kind of a rejection..."
 
Capn, I readily agree with you. I also agree that being nervous in the plane is what generally leads to this type of activity. I can say that from experience, I've never abused a student. However, I do think I've been too firm at times and it has bothered me. This is usually either on final, or when they're doing uncordinated stalls. I know I can recover from a spin, I just don't want to. Especially in a normal category plane without parachutes. So you're right, once you're on edge as an instructor I think it tends to make you a little more firm.
 
Jim I disagree with every word. If they are not crying then they are not learning.

ohh..Jimbo how you have matured. I remember when you were hired at Skymates. Luca interviewed you and you came out of his office and looked at me, gave me a fist pump and let out a f*** ya!! I didnt know you from Adam but it cracked me up.

Wofford voice....."*sigh*...jiiiim how do you flight instruct"

BRAVO KILO
 
...and if they're upside down they're not puking!
Ya forgot the worst Jim quote of all: "I'm an airline pilot!" <sh'teating grin>
Luca only hired me so he could get some goddamm peace and quiet.

Man, Bravo Kilo was when Kilo Bravo pulled up in the Caddy, lit the pipe, and sterted preflighting the Nicotine Dream. All the old CFI's would scatter, and the new ones would stand there like chumps wondering "WTF?" Classic.
 
WOW Capt Jim, great post!!! Im obviously not an instructor, I'm the student, Im luckey I found this post, its very very informative. Being the student, its hard. My first lesson went great, did better than he expected. The next lesson My taxiing was horrible and it was my first takeoff which I almost went off the runway, twice (see my taxi(I)ng sucks in general topics) Im glad my instructor is very patient, so far. Good instructors are calm and can handle anything that comes there way because they have seen it all. Good instructors will let you make the mistake (as long as it is not dangerous) Again with taxiing, he let me almost hit the hanger, he let me trim the wrong way to see why you shouldnt. I think the best thing a student can do, even if his flying that day sucked, he made mistakes, is to always walk away knowing what you did wrong and learn from it, turn it into a positive experience that you can learn from, instead of a I suck, im never going to be a pilot attitude. LIke me, my taxiing sucked, so I just visualize what to do next time. A student wanting to learn will make it easier for the instructor, but If the instructor is just a hot head drill sergent, then change instructors. ALways keep an ope mind about your instructor, if you dont like his teaching style, his pace, or whatever, talk to him/her about it. Again great post, very helpfull. Thanks Jim.
 
Thanks Paul, glad you liked it. If you fly long enough, you'll get one of those boneheads. Don't put up with it. He'll throw a tantrum just like any child will, but don't bow to it. Stop the flight, talk to a supervisor.
 
CapnJim said:
Thanks Paul, glad you liked it. If you fly long enough, you'll get one of those boneheads. Don't put up with it. He'll throw a tantrum just like any child will, but don't bow to it. Stop the flight, talk to a supervisor.
Click to expand...

Alright, I definitley keep that/this in mind when I do. Knowing me it will be when I go to get my instrument.
 
In flight school during instrument training one of my buddies had one of those yelling and screaming type of instructors. So one day after an approach, my buddy asked the IP if they could land for a minute. The IP didn't like it, but they did. Then my buddy opens the door and gets out saying very calmly, "I'm never flying with you again" and walks back to the hangars. Classic. An investigation was done after that and the IP was fired.
 
So CapnJim, we have established that is bad to yell at your students, but how bout putting your extremely good looking female student, who wears low kneck shirts ON EVERY FLIGHT, under the hood so you can get some hooter time??
 
Perfectly acceptable. And encouraged.
She can have VMC when she wears turtlenecks.
And share damn you! Two words: Camera phone!
 
Dugie8 said:
So CapnJim, we have established that is bad to yell at your students, but how bout putting your extremely good looking female student, who wears low kneck shirts ON EVERY FLIGHT, under the hood so you can get some hooter time??
Click to expand...


i love hooter time
 
Dugie8 said:
So CapnJim, we have established that is bad to yell at your students, but how bout putting your extremely good looking female student, who wears low kneck shirts ON EVERY FLIGHT, under the hood so you can get some hooter time??
Click to expand...

That is the greatest idea I've ever heard.

Now where are you getting these hot students? :mad:
 
I've had a couple of hotties, and some good hooter time. Key points:
1. Must be summer. Summer clothes, you see.
2. Must see her coming first, because the other instructors will be on her like white on rice. Honestly, it's worse than 2:05am at Sherlock's.
3. Don't walk to the plane with the hood strapped to your head like a grey plastic pope hat. Or backwards like a grey plastic mullet. Only new CFI's think that's funny.
 
CapnJim said:
3. Don't walk to the plane with the hood strapped to your head like a grey plastic pope hat. Or backwards like a grey plastic mullet. Only new CFI's think that's funny.
Click to expand...

You mean wearing a jiffy hood on yor head backwards and talking like darth vader on the mic is not funny!?!? Thats how I roll though!
 
*whew*
I though you were going to bring up the Samurai CFI incident.
Hajimemashte... Banzai!!!!!!

Dude- check your PMs. Didja get that... thing.. I sent ya?
 
Good points all around. I wrote this back when I was a student:

https://flighttraining.aopa.org/cfi_tools/publications/inst_reports2.cfm?article=4646

Now, after over 1000 hrs dual given, alot of that still rings true, but I've learned a LOT since then as well. I always think of us as being not only an instructor but a mentor. I always ask my students what they would like to do eventually, and tailor my instruction to that, or chat with them about job prospects when they have questions (that's where you all come in:)) I always try to make it fun, and am about the calmest guy you'll meet.

But, there are some things that get to me though, such as when my commercial multi student fails a check with these check pilot comments:

"IP terminated flight after multiple attempts at slow flight both clean and dirty both under hood and without hood. NO where near pts."

"over 6 attempts. All outside of pts 1 IP intervention to prevent exceeding limitation. Another attempt student exceeded both vfe and vlo before ip could intervein. SEE ABOVE"

It's very frustrating, both for the student and for myself. I am frustrated because this most basic of maneuvers cannot be performed correctly at the commercial multi level, after everything was dead on when he flew with me. This particular student gets very nervous on checks, and this may have something to do with it, but he has had enough experience that that shouldn't be an issue.

Also, it's when I see a general laziness or lack of effort on the student's part that I start to get kind of upset. I don't show this to the students, but I just don't understand it. For example, arriving late for every single activity, even after I discuss the importance of timeliness in this business, or not knowing basic procedures, which we had thoroughly reviewed many times, on the last dual flight before the checkride. I'll run through it with them, then calmly discuss why it is so important to know these things once we get on the ground. I'll always give the student the tools to succeed, teach them everything I know, motivate them to succeed, but I expect some self-motivation. Still I see these things sometimes.

The student is the customer, and it is their money (I read The Savvy Flight Instructor too :))....that motivates me to teach as well as I possibly can, and get them ready to fly out there on their own, but it goes both ways. If they don't put in the effort, well, it is their money. Anyway, good post...lots to discuss there.

-Brock Sargeant
MEII
 
Yup....I didn't see this sucker until it showed up in the "Hot Topic" archive, but I have to tell my abusive story after reading it...hehe.

I had this old crusty "I was an E-9 Boom Operator and have done everything" fart of an instructor in Altus, OK. He would literally SMACK my hand repeatedly because I kept resting it on the flap handle in his Tomahawk. This handle looks like a cars emergency brake, for those that are not familiar with it. The habit had formed because I rested my hand on my shifter in my pickup in close to the same place. I realize it was wrong, but this guy was simply infuriated by it. He liked to tell me how dumb I was for doing it too.

Now, I would be a bit more understanding if I was a really "BAD" student, but it seemed to be my only vice in the 2 hours of flying I had done with this guy. I already had 25 hours in a 152 the year prior and had solo time too. I just wanted to be able to solo and build some time. I had greased every landing I did and performed all basic maneuvers with no demonstration.
However, this guy seemed to tee off for any little thing; Altitude drop, RPM off by a hair, etc... and the hand smacking...THREE TIMES! Was the end of it. I had warned him the very first time that physical contact was not something I took lightly, no matter the reason he was doing it.

After he smacked me a third time, I turned the plane around and headed back, so mad I wanted to beat him right there. Before he could even ask, I said "You and I are done. When we get on the ground, let me smack you around a little and see how you like it". He did'nt say a word..Just looked at me in disbelief. I flew back and landed with him never even asking for control. I taxied in and came to a stop. He looked at me and said "OK...I am getting out. You are staying in. Go solo and use my plane to build time. Sorry it did'nt work out". He needed money as he had very few students for his Tomahawk and Arrow (Gee I wonder why)
I Solo'd with 2.5 hours total in the Tomahawk, all 3 landings flawless and smooth.
I never came back to fly with him or his plane again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top