Okc (basics training)

nav-vet

New Member
First of all I wanna let everyone know, this is not nav-vet, but his wife. I have quite a bit of time on my hands and am on this site much more than he is.
I have read in several post about how easy basics is. I do not want you guys to give the new arrivals false hope. Basics is not easy for everyone. My husband is very smart and Im not just saying that because Im bias, he really is. He had an exceptional score on the ATSAT, and can multi-task like no bodies business, but he struggled in Basics, he had been out of school for quite sometime and I believe it was due to the lack of knowing how to study. he failed the first test and began studying deligently every night and from then on he never scored below 90% and passed his PV with flying colors. Im sure for some, Basics was a piece of cake, but thats not the case for all. There were several in my husbands class who had the same problem.
While I agree you shouldn't study before arriving at OKC, I do think you should listen closely to your instructors once your there, take notes, and study. It may be a snooze fest for some but trust me my husband and at least three other class mates swear that basics was way more difficult than tower cab training. It is not as easy as you would think from reading the post on this forum.
and just so you know he has been at his facility for a week now and already passed two of the test there,and he is at a level 9 facility ( again very smart).
Everyone learns at a different pace, some people have a hard time grasping things they feel dont apply to what they will be doing. Basics teaches alot about other positions that dont directly apply to the air traffic control position .......but anyway thats my two cents, just didnt want people going in thinking that basics is a piece of cake for everyone.
 
The thing that made basics so easy for me was that I paid attention. If you really pay attention you will barely have to study. Just a quick review before the test.


On a side note...I think the first test has the highest retake of all the blocks. Not sure why though.
 
The thing that made basics so easy for me was that I paid attention. If you really pay attention you will barely have to study. Just a quick review before the test.


On a side note...I think the first test has the highest retake of all the blocks. Not sure why though.

People don't know what they're in for.

I start basics on Thursday... 5/21, looking forward to it. I'm sure it will be tough on a lot of people that graduated a while ago to get back into a school-type atmosphere. I'm glad I won't have to worry about it since I just graduated, have a PPL, and an aviation degree. :)
 
The thing that made basics so easy for me was that I paid attention. If you really pay attention you will barely have to study. Just a quick review before the test.


On a side note...I think the first test has the highest retake of all the blocks. Not sure why though.

the test that has the highest retake is a test from the pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge, thats what my CTI advisor told our class anyway. I had the book for it and am a pilot and made around a 70ish. But the avg grade for OTS was like 30 or 40 since they had never seen the stuff before, and the OTS have to retake it, but they didn't make us retake it since we were CTI's. But that test didn't mean anything, they just wanted to see what you knew.

And a monkey could pass basics from what I was told from the people in my class when I was in OKC last summer. I even saw their material. It's very very basics stuff about aviation, airplanes, weather, etc. It was what I did in CTI except condensed.

navy-vet, hate to tell ya, a level 9 is kind of not a big deal. Everyone here at ATL kind of laughs at 9's because you don't really do too much there, so I don't really understand what you comment about being smart in parentheses has to do with a lvl 9. And a good atsat score doesnt mean too much either, just qualified or well qualified.
 
I'm not talkin about the basics pretest. I'm talkin about block 1. If your cti then you never took it. You took the final. We took the final the first day so we could see how improved we are by the end
 
First of all I wanna let everyone know, this is not nav-vet, but his wife. I have quite a bit of time on my hands and am on this site much more than he is.
I have read in several post about how easy basics is. I do not want you guys to give the new arrivals false hope. Basics is not easy for everyone. My husband is very smart and Im not just saying that because Im bias, he really is. He had an exceptional score on the ATSAT, and can multi-task like no bodies business, but he struggled in Basics, he had been out of school for quite sometime and I believe it was due to the lack of knowing how to study. he failed the first test and began studying deligently every night and from then on he never scored below 90% and passed his PV with flying colors. Im sure for some, Basics was a piece of cake, but thats not the case for all. There were several in my husbands class who had the same problem.
While I agree you shouldn't study before arriving at OKC, I do think you should listen closely to your instructors once your there, take notes, and study. It may be a snooze fest for some but trust me my husband and at least three other class mates swear that basics was way more difficult than tower cab training. It is not as easy as you would think from reading the post on this forum.
and just so you know he has been at his facility for a week now and already passed two of the test there,and he is at a level 9 facility ( again very smart).
Everyone learns at a different pace, some people have a hard time grasping things they feel dont apply to what they will be doing. Basics teaches alot about other positions that dont directly apply to the air traffic control position .......but anyway thats my two cents, just didnt want people going in thinking that basics is a piece of cake for everyone.

In basics, they indroduce too much material in too little time and what makes it worse is that it covers so many various topics it can be overloading. The layout of the material is simple, but add all of the other variables in, that's what makes it difficult. I have my PPL, and just graduated college and it was still a little difficult for me and some of my classmates. So, I agree with what you say Nav-Vet's wife.
 
I KNOW the only reason my hubby didn't totally struggle in basics was due to his aviation knowledge. Had he NOT had that knowledge, he would have struggled.
 
I made 100's on every block test and a 99 on the comprehensive final for basics. I studied when I felt like I needed more time with the material (I put in 6 solid hours the night before the block 4 test), and I didn't study when I had a good grasp on the material from the classroom.

So I'm not sure what to call it really, easy or hard. I guess it wasn't completely easy, because I did log some hours in the books when I needed it. But it wasn't hard either because it was just a matter of putting the effort into it when needed. If I hadn't put forth the study effort, I'm certain my tests scores would have been much lower. And I never went to college.

The point is, it's just bookwork. I don't think anyone is doing applicants a disservice by calling basics easy. If they get there and blow off the bookwork when they really need more study time, that's their own fault.
 
the test that has the highest retake is a test from the pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge, thats what my CTI advisor told our class anyway. I had the book for it and am a pilot and made around a 70ish. But the avg grade for OTS was like 30 or 40 since they had never seen the stuff before, and the OTS have to retake it, but they didn't make us retake it since we were CTI's. But that test didn't mean anything, they just wanted to see what you knew.

And a monkey could pass basics from what I was told from the people in my class when I was in OKC last summer. I even saw their material. It's very very basics stuff about aviation, airplanes, weather, etc. It was what I did in CTI except condensed.

navy-vet, hate to tell ya, a level 9 is kind of not a big deal. Everyone here at ATL kind of laughs at 9's because you don't really do too much there, so I don't really understand what you comment about being smart in parentheses has to do with a lvl 9. And a good atsat score doesnt mean too much either, just qualified or well qualified.

That was a little rude. Some people just have a tough time with basics, maybe because they're better "visual" learners. Our class had plenty of re-takes, and I would consider *most* of them to be very intelligent people - some folks just don't test well. On another note, level 9's do exist, and somebody has to occupy that tower, just like your facility.

On a Bipop-related note... our highest class retake was block 4, which I believe was 90% NWS related :)
 
The thing that made basics so easy for me was that I paid attention. If you really pay attention you will barely have to study. Just a quick review before the test.

On a side note...I think the first test has the highest retake of all the blocks. Not sure why though.

Okay bippoptl, I want you to know that I respect and admire you, but I am so sick of you saying that basics is the easiest thing that ever was.

Okay. We get it. Basics was easy for you. For you.

College was easy for me too. I did hardly any work and graduated with nearly a 4.0, but I don't go around thinking or telling people that it will be easy for them.

Now that I'm a teacher, I cringe whenever a boy or girl asks me a question and someone shouts out, "That's easy!"

All I want to do is whip around and say, "Well now little Suzy, if it really was so easy for little Timmy then he wouldn't be asking, now would he?"

When you say that basics is easy, so don't worry about it, it makes it seem like people don't need to take it seriously. You obviously did take it seriously; making sure that you were well focused in class and studying when you needed to. That probably comes easy for you as it does for me.

But you and I are not everyone else. Basics is probably simple and straight forward and the people going in to it can do it. But those things are not the same as easy.

Please stop telling other people what will or will not be easy for them.
 
It's simple. If you have aviation backround then BASICS is a walk in the park. If you dont, you may or may not struggle. I can imagine learning everything I have learned for my ratings in 5 weeks would be kinda hard. But what do I know. I dont start till Thursday :nana2:
 
WoH....LOL, ok, basics is extremely hard and I (and everyone I know) studied non stop..and still struggled
 
I know people that struggled a LOT in basics. They studied and eventually passed PV on first time and are now in their centers. I know people that BREEZED through basics and then FAILED the PV the first time around.

Having an aviation knowledge helps immensely with Basics. After Basics everyone works there butts off. In a lot of ways if you study a TON in basics, it helps get you in good habits for tracon or enroute training!

Diver191: A Level 9 facility is an easier facility than a Level 12..hence level 9 and level 12! Starting out a Level 9 is a LOT easier and in many many ways better to get checked out on. A Level 9 has very few failing out, yet a level 12 DOES. Many, Many, MANY that get sent to level 12's either fail out or are sent down to a level 7, 8 or 9. This system was not made or intended for someone to start at a Level 12. N90 (New York Tower) has not given out a CPC in over 5 years...they don't have time to worry about training, they have to worry about taking care of the planes. The trainees fail out completely or are sent to a lower facility. Count yourself lucky to start out at a 9 if you get that! You can move up facilities AFTER you are CPC and you have a LOT less chance of failing out!!!
 
the test that has the highest retake is a test from the pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge, thats what my CTI advisor told our class anyway. I had the book for it and am a pilot and made around a 70ish. But the avg grade for OTS was like 30 or 40 since they had never seen the stuff before, and the OTS have to retake it, but they didn't make us retake it since we were CTI's. But that test didn't mean anything, they just wanted to see what you knew.

And a monkey could pass basics from what I was told from the people in my class when I was in OKC last summer. I even saw their material. It's very very basics stuff about aviation, airplanes, weather, etc. It was what I did in CTI except condensed.

navy-vet, hate to tell ya, a level 9 is kind of not a big deal. Everyone here at ATL kind of laughs at 9's because you don't really do too much there, so I don't really understand what you comment about being smart in parentheses has to do with a lvl 9. And a good atsat score doesnt mean too much either, just qualified or well qualified.

Hearsay and condescension is not a pretty combination. Even a level 6 facility doesn't diminish the fact you are responsible for people's lives. Talking down to people based on a number is childish, petty, and pretty disrespectful to the craft, in my opinion.

Basics is a challenging course. It's not overly difficult and its designed to pass people while equipping them for their initial ATC training. If you don't study or pay attention you will fail. Fortunately most of the people who are here want to pass, so they put in the effort and they do so.

And for the record, I also failed the first block test in basics. And I thought the AT-SAT was also a challenging test. I was a F-16 avionics specialist for six years and I have two degrees. (A.S. and a B.S.) I must be really retarded.

Oh, and I've worked at a level 12 facility for two years in the FAA prior to going to the academy. (I was in Tech Ops) We haven't washed anyone aside from two people that washed themselves by cheating on an exam. If you put in the time, you can do it. Maybe not at A80, but it can be done. I've seen it done. And not by genuises or people with extraordinary talent in ATC.
 
the test that has the highest retake is a test from the pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge, thats what my CTI advisor told our class anyway. I had the book for it and am a pilot and made around a 70ish. But the avg grade for OTS was like 30 or 40 since they had never seen the stuff before, and the OTS have to retake it, but they didn't make us retake it since we were CTI's. But that test didn't mean anything, they just wanted to see what you knew.

And a monkey could pass basics from what I was told from the people in my class when I was in OKC last summer. I even saw their material. It's very very basics stuff about aviation, airplanes, weather, etc. It was what I did in CTI except condensed.

navy-vet, hate to tell ya, a level 9 is kind of not a big deal. Everyone here at ATL kind of laughs at 9's because you don't really do too much there, so I don't really understand what you comment about being smart in parentheses has to do with a lvl 9. And a good atsat score doesnt mean too much either, just qualified or well qualified.
:tmyk: NONE of the cti people NONE even knew how to say the letter "x" for the phonetic alphabet. OH and a 3 year military controller couldn't pass tower visibility... ya academy is easy and all air traffic no matter what facility unless its the busiest airport in the world is easy. all positions below a level 12 could be filled by monkeys and the AT SAT doesnt measure one iota of aptitude :sarcasm: oh one more thing. i am not a pilot i was never cti and i made an upper 60's score on the basics pre test and am going to a level 9. i MUST MUST be learning disabled. i would feel even more ridiculous if i spent thousands on an education that can be compressed into 5 weeks and had nothing more positive to say about my fellow employees... you will fit in nicely at your facility i am sure
 
Just my 2 nickels here.....I would like to state the obvious that maybe some have forgotten about classroom learning. Your ability to learn and apply new information lies strongly with your instructor's ability to teach it. I was lucky and had great teachers in both basics and phase 2 prior to going into the sims and everyone in my class did very well in both basics and phase 2. Most in my phase 2 class even said that the academics portion of phase 2 is more relaxed and easier than basics. That being said, on my classes last day of basics we were discussing how easy basics was and hoping that phase 2 wouldnt be as difficult as basics was. Its all fun and games till you get in the tower cab sims then everyone begins to get nervous. You cant study for simulator sessions haha.
 
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