Oil quantity and FBO attitude

S

SBI

Well-Known Member
The POH says oil quantity should be between 6 and 8 qt. Every time you do your preflight the level is below 6, so you add oil.
The owner of the FBO is a major PITA and gives you hard time about it...he cannot see pilots add oil, he keep saying "this a/c does not need more oil", he literally takes the oil can out of your hand and put it back in the cargo compartment and always throw sarcastic remarks and basically interferes with your preflight.

What would you do?
 
What would I do? Never rent from there again.

Seriously! I'd be finding a new FBO. Even if it meant driving a bit farther to get there.
 
How far below 6? The Cirrus that I fly for my company always wants to settle at 5 1/2, although the book says 6 is the minimum. Anything more than 6, and it blows it out on the belly; once it is settled at 5 1/2 though, it doesn't budge for many hours. We contacted TCM about it and they say its alright. If you're talking about 4 1/2 or 5 quarts on the regular, then you might try bringing up the fact that the something may have been overlooked or installed improperly at the last overhaul. If he doesn't seem to care about what you have to say, then I'd be looking for somewhere else to rent. However, if it is settling at 5 1/2-5 3/4 quarts, then he has every right in the world to reduce the amount of oil his renters are wasting.
 
I actually had a talk about this with my DE during my commercial checkride, and he told me in so many words, screw the mechanic and their so called infinite wisdom, when they say you don't need more oil...You are the only flying the airplane...Not them. Piper Arrow II for example...Mininum oil is 2 quarts. Now if you experience any engine or prop related problem involving oil, do you really want to be flying around with the mininum amount of oil Piper says has to be in the system? Of those 2 quarts, how much is even usable?

Tell the flight school you are the one flying the airplane, and if they have a problem with you adding a quart, 2 or 4, then tell them to stick it up their arse's, and rent from someone else.

If this were me, i'd also assume that since they don't care about oil levels in their engine, they also may be pretty passive about maintance. Might be a good time to take a look at the logbooks and make sure everything is up to date.
 
SBI said:
The POH says oil quantity should be between 6 and 8 qt.
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Some POH's will have in the maintenance area different oil level quantities. I recall some Pipers saying that the minimum safe level is 2 quarts. I think I've seen some Cessnas saying don't operate below 4, even though the checklist said 6-8. So the figure on the checklist doesn't appear to be rock bottom.

Also, some airplanes with spew excess oil out the oil breather tube if you actually fill it up to the max recommended. Our C150 does this.

So I'm not convinced that you're unsafe with less than six nor is it clear that you're violating an operation limitation.

That said, your FBO owner is rude. Why are they all such poor business men?
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
How far below 6? The Cirrus that I fly for my company always wants to settle at 5 1/2, although the book says 6 is the minimum. Anything more than 6, and it blows it out on the belly; once it is settled at 5 1/2 though, it doesn't budge for many hours. We contacted TCM about it and they say its alright. If you're talking about 4 1/2 or 5 quarts on the regular, then you might try bringing up the fact that the something may have been overlooked or installed improperly at the last overhaul. If he doesn't seem to care about what you have to say, then I'd be looking for somewhere else to rent. However, if it is settling at 5 1/2-5 3/4 quarts, then he has every right in the world to reduce the amount of oil his renters are wasting.
Click to expand...

I flew a plane like when I was learning, I was convinced the dipstick was off or something, but yea, it was wasting oil to keep it up to POH's level
 
Well if the plane coughs a rod, you can tell him:
retard.jpg
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
How far below 6? The Cirrus that I fly for my company always wants to settle at 5 1/2, although the book says 6 is the minimum. Anything more than 6, and it blows it out on the belly; once it is settled at 5 1/2 though, it doesn't budge for many hours. We contacted TCM about it and they say its alright. If you're talking about 4 1/2 or 5 quarts on the regular, then you might try bringing up the fact that the something may have been overlooked or installed improperly at the last overhaul. If he doesn't seem to care about what you have to say, then I'd be looking for somewhere else to rent. However, if it is settling at 5 1/2-5 3/4 quarts, then he has every right in the world to reduce the amount of oil his renters are wasting.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:
Also wipe the underside of the cowling aft of the breather tube and check it after flight. You'll see the excess back there. As long as it settles at a certain level and you aren't having temp problems I wouldn't worry about it. The guy is probably ticked because he told you more then once and you continue to waste oil every flight.
 
With such tight margins he doesn't want you to put in a bunch of oil only to have to clean it off the bottom of the airplane when your done. Most 0-360s I have flown like to sit right around 6. Put in a whole quart up to 7 and it will be back down in 3 hours. It will sit at 6 for 15-20 hours.

Sounds like he was kind of rude instead of explaining this to you tho.

-Jason
 
mikecweb said:
:yeahthat:
Also wipe the underside of the cowling aft of the breather tube and check it after flight. You'll see the excess back there. As long as it settles at a certain level and you aren't having temp problems I wouldn't worry about it. The guy is probably ticked because he told you more then once and you continue to waste oil every flight.
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The Beeches we have have all run just fine at 6 quarts. Like others have said anymore than that and you're just wasting it. One guy rented our Beech Sierra and was insistant that he had 8 quarts because the POH said it could hold 8. The line guy at the time reluctantly put the oil in and the guy took off. Well, he had a crappy landing at another airport and collapsed the nosewheel. But, good thing he had those 8 quarts.:rolleyes:
 
SBI said:
The POH says oil quantity should be between 6 and 8 qt. Every time you do your preflight the level is below 6, so you add oil.
The owner of the FBO is a major PITA and gives you hard time about it...he cannot see pilots add oil, he keep saying "this a/c does not need more oil", he literally takes the oil can out of your hand and put it back in the cargo compartment and always throw sarcastic remarks and basically interferes with your preflight.

What would you do?
Click to expand...

Is the engine hot, back from a flight when this happens? Like some, I wouldn't put anymore in unless it went below 5 qts. Plus, I'd have to ask the guy if I'm having to pay extra for him being a d*@k.
Engines have personalities, too. You just have to get to know them.
 
Was it the first measurement of the day?

After a nice, sub-32F(0C) cold soak over night?

or

Was it after a couple flights of the day, and the oil is a bit warmer? If it is, I'd be adding some oil.

Nevertheless, yeah - find some new place to fly if the owner of the FBO is going to be a dip####.
 
not sure but my club always keeps our pa28-140 at 6qt, minimum is 2qt....I can't imagine flying the plane with only 2qt.
 
Was there suppose to be a response to that quotation SBI?

Not seeing any text, or images. ;)

Nevermind, I think what you're trying to say is that it was THAT type of scenario.

Well, what I would have done . . .

Is launched, using a slightly longer run-up than needed to make sure oil temp increases over a period of time (2-3 mins).

If it does, and everything runs as it should, I'll continue and take-off, keeping a nice close eye on my oil gauges. When I return back on the ground, I'll check my oil quantity again, if it is then still less than the required - I'll put some more in there.

You'll remember (or notice) that the color along with the consistency of the oil differs significantly between cold and warm. I want a warm indication of oil quantity over a cold indication.
 
What kind of plane are you flying?

The Arrow I was flying called for 6-8 qts. However, anything over 6 would just blow out after the first flight. The mechanic said 5 1/2 to 6 is best. That seemed to work because there was no blowoff, making a messy belly, and the temps settled fine.

Gotta agree with MikeCWeb; From the little bit of information that you are giving us, it sounds to me like the owner knows what is going on and you are arguing with him about his own plane. Do you really think he is trying to skimp on oil? It would cost him a heck of alot more money to replace a damaged motor. As big of a PITA you think he is, I doubt he would risk that, or your safety, for a quart of oil.

As far as the lack of professionalism from the owner, well I would not let that go unchecked. Make a complaint and find another flight school.
 
Hey I just wanted to say hi. My name is matt. Im originally from covington. Ive been in the army for the last 6 years and I only have 10 months left. just trying to talk to some people from memphis to see what kind of flying opportunities there are. Thank for your replies.
matt
 
pfitmx15 said:
Hey I just wanted to say hi. My name is matt. Im originally from covington. Ive been in the army for the last 6 years and I only have 10 months left. just trying to talk to some people from memphis to see what kind of flying opportunities there are. Thank for your replies.
matt
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Well, welcome to JC. . .but I'm not too sure this thread will serve as your way of finding other people who know a thing about flying opportunities in Memphis.

Mods - perhaps time for JC recurrent (or even an enhanced Initial) training program? :)
 
surreal1221 said:
Mods - perhaps time for JC recurrent (or even an enhanced Initial) training program? :)
Click to expand...

We seem to have a JC IOE every month...:panic:

Hey I just wanted to say hi. My name is matt. Im originally from covington. Ive been in the army for the last 6 years and I only have 10 months left. just trying to talk to some people from memphis to see what kind of flying opportunities there are. Thank for your replies.
matt
Click to expand...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/jobs-a...is-before-posting-no-seriously-read-this.html
 
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