Oil drops.....again

In ten years there COULD possibly be a lot of different energy sources, making the drilling uncessesary.
Or maybe not.

Perhaps a combination of companies investing in additional drilling AND companies investing in alternatives would be a more prudent solution?

Also "that money" that you say could be spent on renewables isn't your money anyways...it belongs to the corporations that are willing to invest in the drilling. It's not your job to allocate where a corporation invests its money.
 
and another liberal goes down :yup:

Nah, still sticking by what I said. Someone please tell me how drilling is gonna effect the cost of gas like the conservatives keep saying? Is it magically gonna go from the ground and into our gas tanks in a week?
 
Nah, still sticking by what I said. Someone please tell me how drilling is gonna effect the cost of gas like the conservatives keep saying? Is it magically gonna go from the ground and into our gas tanks in a week?
'Drilling to increase the oil supply makes as much sense as farming to increase the food supply' ;)

The fact that the timescale is longer doesn't change the basic principles involved. Paris Hilton is right...drill for oil until we can replace it with alternatives. There's no guarantee on when alternatives will save us, we have to be prepared for the worst case scenario.
 
'Drilling to increase the oil supply makes as much sense as farming to increase the food supply'


I'd accept the analogy if oil actual netted returns in the same year. As it is, it's gonna take several years just to get the drilling equipment in place. With farming, you can clear the land, plant the crops, harvest the crops and have them at the market in less than a year. So it actually DOES increase the supply. Considering how long the time frame is on this offshore drilling actually having an effect on the marketplace and how little of a drop in the overall supply bucket it's really gonna be, I just think the money could be better spent researching alternatives rather than tying us to the same whipping post.
 
I'd accept the analogy if oil actual netted returns in the same year. As it is, it's gonna take several years just to get the drilling equipment in place. With farming, you can clear the land, plant the crops, harvest the crops and have them at the market in less than a year. So it actually DOES increase the supply. Considering how long the time frame is on this offshore drilling actually having an effect on the marketplace and how little of a drop in the overall supply bucket it's really gonna be, I just think the money could be better spent researching alternatives rather than tying us to the same whipping post.
But the money isn't going to be spent researching alternatives. It's the oil company's money, it's going to be spent looking for oil or improving oil technology (if not in the US then in russia, venezuala, or any number of other places).

If you want the government to provide encouragement for alternative energy research then so be it. But the oil companies can spend their money drilling for more oil at the same time the government is giving tax credits to corporations who are investing in alternative research.
 
But the money isn't going to be spent researching alternatives. It's the oil company's money, it's going to be spent looking for oil or improving oil technology (if not in the US then in russia, venezuala, or any number of other places).


Not entirely true. BP is funding research in solar, wind and other renewables, and Conoco/Phillips is funding an "energy prize" for new sources of energy in conjunction with Penn State.
 
Not entirely true. BP is funding research in solar, wind and other renewables, and Conoco/Phillips is funding an "energy prize" for new sources of energy in conjunction with Penn State.
So are they doing this investment because they cant drill more, or are they planning for the future?
 
You know, in most bull markets, there's always a little pullback. That tends to be a good time to buy.

I don't know if this is what is happening, but it's something to think about.

My guess? Oil will probably be somewhere around $100-120 a barrel for a long time to come.
 
All the more reason to drill now. Why we keep waiting is beyond me.
Because the part that McCain won't admit is that "drill now" doesn't actually involve a drill rig hitting ocean floor for 5-7 years. Keeping your tires properly inflated, on the other hand, yields instant savings--which means instant economic benefit.

Back to the earlier part of the thread: we've got one group of analysts swearing it's gonna drop to $70/bbl, another swearing it's gonna go to $150-200/bbl. What this should tell you is to not trust analysts, as they're probably only trying to influence the price in the direction they've optioned.
 
Or maybe not.

Perhaps a combination of companies investing in additional drilling AND companies investing in alternatives would be a more prudent solution?

Also "that money" that you say could be spent on renewables isn't your money anyways...it belongs to the corporations that are willing to invest in the drilling. It's not your job to allocate where a corporation invests its money.

No, but it is MY state they want to drill off of and MY vote in a democracy that will tell these people WHERE they can spend "their money."
 
I'd accept the analogy if oil actual netted returns in the same year. As it is, it's gonna take several years just to get the drilling equipment in place. With farming, you can clear the land, plant the crops, harvest the crops and have them at the market in less than a year. So it actually DOES increase the supply. Considering how long the time frame is on this offshore drilling actually having an effect on the marketplace and how little of a drop in the overall supply bucket it's really gonna be, I just think the money could be better spent researching alternatives rather than tying us to the same whipping post.

Well, actually the oil market is more able to meet demand than farming. Farming needs to be planned based on averages. You can only plant certain crops at certain time. Plant to little and not make enough, plant to much and be left with overage that was costly to produce and then discard eating into profits. Factor in weather and crops are much more volatile than oil.

Oil while limited, has a good amount of excess supply at current usage. many OPEC countries and others are not pumping at capacity because simply put, they don't need to. There is not a shortage currently.

The problem was the market was looking forward. Looking at expected growth over the next decade and seeing that if production remained stagnant we would reach a point where excess capacity would be slim.

If we open up more ocean, start drilling the shale in the midwest, tap oil sands in Canada, open part of ANWR, continue to develop coal to oil and help Brazil tap into the newly found oil reserves then the future looks much brighter (or smoggy depending on location).

On top of that, China and India have now stopped subsidizing their gasoline. As a result demand is slowing, still increasing, but slower. We as a nation are consuming less and working towards a future where overall demand is lower.

All of this means that the future of oil looks to be excess supply. Excess supply means lower prices.

Look at the housing market. People started buying and a shortage occurred. Builders jumped in and started building at a frantic pace. Every Tom Joe and Harry handyman started trying to "flip" houses. Prices continued to rise. More projects were planned. Everyone thought the boom would last. now, we have a huuuge excess supply. Projects are still planned to put more supply in the works because it would be more expensive to cancel than to continue. This means more excess supply. Prices will continue to fall.

Eventually the market will balance out. i don't think we will get back to 30 a barrel, but I think 60 is realistic.

Of course, all this goes out the window if anything happens with Iran. But I am thinking and really hoping cooler heads will prevail.

Also, i think given the current climate and that most people think oil will stay above 50 going forward the incentive is still there to develop alternatives. Heating oil and gasoline will still be double what ut was a few years prior. The room for cheaper more efficient technologies to undercut it has increased. With all the current investment I do not think it will be long before we see solar, wind and hybrids/electirc cars all be viable even at the lower price of fuel.
 
So are they doing this investment because they cant drill more, or are they planning for the future?

If they're smart businesses that follow the trends of consumer demand, they're planning for the future. Otherwise they're pretty much the same as the dinosaurs they're digging out of the ground.
 
im just chiming in to say i was actually HAPPY at the gas station today because for the last 3 fillups (i only put in about 10$ at a time...) its been getting cheaper!


woot for an '89 BMW that gets a whopping 15mpg in the city :-\ (i blame 30mph speed limits and a zillion freakin redlights!)
 
Won't have a market effect for ten years if not more. That money could go to something renewable. Besides, do you really want to spend the next ten years being furloughed or layed off every two? Americans are lazy but when they need something, necessity truly is the mother of invention. In ten years there COULD possibly be a lot of different energy sources, making the drilling uncessesary.

It wont take ten years to get the oil. There have been rigs that have been built in 2 years. With all the workers needing work, it would actually help the economy from that standpoint. Also the big COULD is a problem. Why are you speculating on alternate fuels only to know that we can get oil in 7 years or less? Oil companies say they can get the oil in less than 7 years.
Besides, why should you care if the oil companies spend their money on new rigs. The government has nothing to do with it other than giving them to OK to drill.

Alternatives are fine to strive for, but we may not actually see them for over 20 years. So why base your argument/future on a possible new energy in ten years instad of an energy we know we can have in at least 7?

Because the part that McCain won't admit is that "drill now" doesn't actually involve a drill rig hitting ocean floor for 5-7 years. Keeping your tires properly inflated, on the other hand, yields instant savings--which means instant economic benefit.

Back to the earlier part of the thread: we've got one group of analysts swearing it's gonna drop to $70/bbl, another swearing it's gonna go to $150-200/bbl. What this should tell you is to not trust analysts, as they're probably only trying to influence the price in the direction they've optioned.

No one says conservation is a bad thing if you do it. It wont fix the problem though. Go for it for now, but do everything we can to get energy and the prices will go down. Also what if people put too much air in their tires? Ah, either they pop (which would require more oil to make them) or they lose traction on the road.

Sure you will save money, but you still will be paying $60+ for fuel every time you fill up, the only difference if that you can go about 15 miles further.

Filling our tires properly wont fix our energy issues.

ALSO, many of us here are in avaition. WHY do you guys keep screwing over your own companies by not drilling for oil? There is currently NO replacement for a jet engine, and if there will be one it is not in the near future. People wont like what I say next but, the furloughs this time around were caused a lot by the fuel problems. Why do you all keep wanting to screw over your own jobs to keep fuel at such a high price? That is what I call backwards logic.

Also filling an aircraft's tires properly will not save on fuel consumption.:crazy:
 
It wont take ten years to get the oil. There have been rigs that have been built in 2 years. With all the workers needing work, it would actually help the economy from that standpoint. Also the big COULD is a problem. Why are you speculating on alternate fuels only to know that we can get oil in 7 years or less? Oil companies say they can get the oil in less than 7 years.

Yeah, let's just drill it all until we run out. No sense looking to the future for something that COULD help. Good thing we didn't waste all the $$$ on medical research for something that COULD cure disease. Sorry, but this statement pretty much shows that people will hold on to oil for dear life b/c it's cheap, easy and already there.

Alternatives are fine to strive for, but we may not actually see them for over 20 years. So why base your argument/future on a possible new energy in ten years instad of an energy we know we can have in at least 7?

Because oil will eventually be gone? Because our economy is getting wrecked b/c of our dependency on it? The sooner we break the hold oil has on us, the sooner we can grow. I'd rather take a chance than for sure no I'm gonna be shackled to OPEC for 7+ years.

Filling our tires properly wont fix our energy issues.

No, but it increases the MPG, which cuts down on consumption, which cuts down on demand. Ignoring the energy issues by saying "Ah, let's just drill" won't fix them either.

ALSO, many of us here are in avaition. WHY do you guys keep screwing over your own companies by not drilling for oil? There is currently NO replacement for a jet engine, and if there will be one it is not in the near future. People wont like what I say next but, the furloughs this time around were caused a lot by the fuel problems. Why do you all keep wanting to screw over your own jobs to keep fuel at such a high price? That is what I call backwards logic.

B/c if there's an alternative found for heating oil, car gas and diesel, then the price for jet fuel goes down due to reduced demand. There's also a LOT of research being done in finding replacements for Jet A.

Also filling an aircraft's tires properly will not save on fuel consumption.:crazy:

I don't think anyone suggested that.
 
Yeah, let's just drill it all until we run out. No sense looking to the future for something that COULD help. Good thing we didn't waste all the $$$ on medical research for something that COULD cure disease. Sorry, but this statement pretty much shows that people will hold on to oil for dear life b/c it's cheap, easy and already there.

Again could help, so take the chance and destroy the economy, besides oil is just part of what we need to do. Free up coal with Nuclear power and build coal to oil plants. Oil is not the only resource I have been saying to use. build your wind mills and such if you want. Also you keep tlaking abtou this money oging into research. OIL companies ar paying for this. Not the researchers, not government grants.

Also your analogy lacks. Its a different environment were the dependence on the research is life or death where as we already have alternatives for energy to bridge the gap to the alternatives you want.

Because oil will eventually be gone? Because our economy is getting wrecked b/c of our dependency on it? The sooner we break the hold oil has on us, the sooner we can grow. I'd rather take a chance than for sure no I'm gonna be shackled to OPEC for 7+ years.

Research is being done to find out why oil field are actually refilling at a much quicker rate than expected. Also the economy is getting wrecked because of us not acting on the problem. the longer we wait, the more our economy will be hurt.

Fon't forget, the alternate energies will leave us shackled to OPEC for 7+ years. So you are getting what you don't want. Producing our own oil through crude, and coal will offset the importing of oil.

No, but it increases the MPG, which cuts down on consumption, which cuts down on demand. Ignoring the energy issues by saying "Ah, let's just drill" won't fix them either.

Really does not cut that much down on demand and again wont fix the problem. I have not ignored the energy issue, I said to use evrything we have right now, for our current problems many times before. Drilling is only part of the fix, coal to oil, wind, nuclear are all examples of what we can do and at the same time all except some wind are being blocked by the democratic congress.

B/c if there's an alternative found for heating oil, car gas and diesel, then the price for jet fuel goes down due to reduced demand. There's also a LOT of research being done in finding replacements for Jet A.

There is an alternative, it is coal to oil. We have had the technology since WWII. It is a much cleaner process today and will work. We have 1/4 of the worlds coal in our country and yet we are not allowed to tap it for coal to oil operations. Also coal produces over 50% of our nation's energy, hence the reason why we should go to nuclear power plants to offset the need for extra digging for coal for the coal to oil process.

We have been researching AIDs for over 30 years and we still can't cure it. Just because there is a LOT of reasearch doesn't mean we will find anything. The research is good, but we can't depend on it fully when we know there are already alternatives that actually work.

I don't think anyone suggested that.

Hence the :crazy:

I just hope everyone doesn't complain about their furlough problems over the next 10+ years if you want to continue to research alternatives and ignore what we already have.
 
Supposing, just supposing, that oil is indeed the cheapest and most efficient way to get energy for the foreseeable future, and I find this likely, how does it not make sense to carefully husband the resource for when we *really* need it? The French paid for their nuke plants in 1960s dollars and everyone laughed at them. Who's laughing now? The simple fact of the matter is the stuff is going to run out. The peak oil nutters think it'll run out tomorrow and you'd better have your supplies laid in and guns oiled. The "drill the pee out of those stupid caribou and let's party on" crowd think it'll happen...you know, someday, whatever, anybody have a cigar?

So, hypothetically, how do we wind up in a better position in, say, 20 years when oil really is a completely inelastic commodity and there isn't enough to go around? Sitting on still-sizable reserves that we can then harness or sell at obscene rates to countries that HAVEN'T been proactive, or parking our Ford Conquistadors (again) and walking to work?
 
Back
Top