Oh man...

Maurus said:
Try flying with foreign students that don't understand English. The word "Okay" takes on a whole new meaning.

CFI: "lets do our cruise checklist"

Student: "okay"

*nothing happens*

CFI: "well?"

*still nothing*

*CFI stuffs checklist in student's face*

Oh and trying to get them to actually study the checklist so they can use the checklist properly, good luck!
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And this is dangerous how? Scary how?

I'm not saying work as a flight instructor isn't challenging. It's very challenging. But it's not dangerous or scary.
 
jrh said:
I guess everyone has different experiences and comfort levels, but I've never felt that way about instructing. Instructing is definitely more...adventuresome...than say, towing banners or flying jumpers, but it's not very dangerous. If it were, accident statistics would be correspondingly high, when in reality the flight training sector is amazingly safe.

The times when I've *really* scared myself with flying have been all my own doing and had no relation to providing instruction. Getting too close to thunderstorms, high density altitude in the mountains, crosswind landings in a tailwheel, etc.

I feel like I have to say something during these sorts of discussions so all the lurkers out there don't think instructing is a white-knuckle experience. Interesting and unusual? Yes, every day. Dangerous? Not really.
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It's all up for interpretation. I personally feel that it's dangerous just because the guy in the other seat generally doing everything wrong at all the wrong moments to put things in sticky situations. There are some guys who respond well to verbal commands and fix things immediately but then there are those who just block out everything you're saying and not responding to what's going on and let things escalate to the point where you have to take over to avoid becoming a smoking hole in the ground (particularly on final approach). That's just who I feel about it.

Some people think motorcycle riding is extremely dangerous, I find it fun and exhilirating. You may find instructing adventurous, I find it dangerous :D
 
jrh said:
I feel like I have to say something during these sorts of discussions so all the lurkers out there don't think instructing is a white-knuckle experience. Interesting and unusual? Yes, every day. Dangerous? Not really.
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I guess you're right..."Adventuresome" is a very good way of putting it. Blood pressure- and heart-rate-raising? Very yes. Dangerous? Not so much, as long as you are always alert?
 
Comparing your mental stability to your first few hours of dual to after you have a couple hundred--its pretty amazing how far you will let things go after awhile.

Stall warning horn screaming 75' above the numbers and responding with a yawn and a sigh "ok, lets lower the nose a bit and add some power..."

I always find myself leaning the direction I want my students to either roll or yaw the aircraft to make things right. ...Thinking that by shifting the CG laterally is actually going to help move the airplane the direction I want it to go without saying anything. :crazy:
 
c172captain said:
but then there are those who just block out everything you're saying and not responding to what's going on and let things escalate to the point where you have to take over to avoid becoming a smoking hole in the ground (particularly on final approach).
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That's my whole point...I would dare say there is *nothing* (in common flight training scenarios using common trainers) that a student could do that would result in a "smoking hole" result.

And for the sake of discussion, I equate "smoking hole" with either, "fatal" or "total hull value loss of the aircraft."

I've never had a person do anything that I couldn't recover from in a matter of seconds. In the practice area, maybe a spin is the worst that could happen, but even then, the planes we fly pop out of spins no problem.

In the pattern, maybe bouncing or porpoising a landing, or botching a go-around? Again, easy to recover from and nowhere even close to fatal. Worst case would be the nosewheel breaks off and you have to fill out some paperwork.

There are plenty of things in flying that can kill you, but students aren't the big ones. They might make me fill out a NASA ASRS report or insurance claim form, but I've never literally feared for my life when I've been training someone.

I'm just trying to get instructors to keep things in perspective. This topic holds a lot more importance than many instructors realize. If a student/customer walks in to a lobby full of instructors and hears them BSing about how they almost died today on a training flight because of their stupid student, how is that going to make the new guy feel? How is that going to reflect on flying as a whole? It unnecessarily gives the impression that flying is dangerous, risky, and difficult to learn. It makes the new guy a lot more scared of learning to fly and makes a new instructor a lot more worried than he should be. Flying might have elements that are dangerous and difficult, but they aren't found very readily in the flight training world.
 
There is something about the personalities of many pilots that makes us like to exaggerate and use hyperbole-e.g., "My student tried to kill me today...", when all that happened was a bit of aileron in a power on stall and a wing drop. Also, we tend to like complaining...I mean, look at any of the career-specific forums in here. The airline pilots complain, the freight dogs complain, the CFIs complain around the FBO.

You do have a good point though, JRH. In fact our chief recently brought that up at a CFI meeting...complain all you want, but be careful who you do it around. Keep your professionalism in front of the students.
 
PilotBeckfizzle said:
I always find myself leaning the direction I want my students to either roll or yaw the aircraft to make things right.
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HAHAHA I have been concious about doing that more recently. When I want them to push the correct rudder without me telling them, I have noticed that my knees will go together and point in the direction the nose needs to go.

You did make me think of something though, next time they need right rudder, I am just going to open my C-150 door.

"As soon as you push on the right rudder, I will close my door."

ingenious
 
PilotBeckfizzle said:
I always find myself leaning the direction I want my students to either roll or yaw the aircraft to make things right. ...Thinking that by shifting the CG laterally is actually going to help move the airplane the direction I want it to go without saying anything. :crazy:
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That is the first time I heard of something like that. Seems like a good tool to use. Do you ever tell the students, "if I lean forward this means push the nose down" and so on...? Seems like a good "you are messing up indicator" and the more you lean the greater it is.
 
PilotBeckfizzle said:
I always find myself leaning the direction I want my students to either roll or yaw the aircraft to make things right. ...Thinking that by shifting the CG laterally is actually going to help move the airplane the direction I want it to go without saying anything. :crazy:
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Good, so I'm not the only one who does that! Why is it that new students always land to the left of the center line to? Man thats frustrating:banghead:.
 
jrh said:
That's my whole point...I would dare say there is *nothing* (in common flight training scenarios using common trainers) that a student could do that would result in a "smoking hole" result.

And for the sake of discussion, I equate "smoking hole" with either, "fatal" or "total hull value loss of the aircraft."

I've never had a person do anything that I couldn't recover from in a matter of seconds. In the practice area, maybe a spin is the worst that could happen, but even then, the planes we fly pop out of spins no problem.

In the pattern, maybe bouncing or porpoising a landing, or botching a go-around? Again, easy to recover from and nowhere even close to fatal. Worst case would be the nosewheel breaks off and you have to fill out some paperwork.

There are plenty of things in flying that can kill you, but students aren't the big ones. They might make me fill out a NASA ASRS report or insurance claim form, but I've never literally feared for my life when I've been training someone.

I'm just trying to get instructors to keep things in perspective. This topic holds a lot more importance than many instructors realize. If a student/customer walks in to a lobby full of instructors and hears them BSing about how they almost died today on a training flight because of their stupid student, how is that going to make the new guy feel? How is that going to reflect on flying as a whole? It unnecessarily gives the impression that flying is dangerous, risky, and difficult to learn. It makes the new guy a lot more scared of learning to fly and makes a new instructor a lot more worried than he should be. Flying might have elements that are dangerous and difficult, but they aren't found very readily in the flight training world.
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You know what, good point. That's why I like this forum, get lots of perspectives that are more well-thought out than mine :) I guess my thoughts of danger made my job seem more interesting lol
 
Ah, the flight instructor lean! I think we all do it. Actually, I think the SCARIEST part of flight instructing is sending up your FIRST student for his FIRST solo around the pattern. I remember that as he taxied off the airplane mysteriously morphed into my licenses taxiing away....hahaha, glad to say he did just fine though :)
 
jrh said:
That's my whole point...I would dare say there is *nothing* (in common flight training scenarios using common trainers) that a student could do that would result in a "smoking hole" result.

And for the sake of discussion, I equate "smoking hole" with either, "fatal" or "total hull value loss of the aircraft."

I've never had a person do anything that I couldn't recover from in a matter of seconds. In the practice area, maybe a spin is the worst that could happen, but even then, the planes we fly pop out of spins no problem.

In the pattern, maybe bouncing or porpoising a landing, or botching a go-around? Again, easy to recover from and nowhere even close to fatal. Worst case would be the nosewheel breaks off and you have to fill out some paperwork.

There are plenty of things in flying that can kill you, but students aren't the big ones. They might make me fill out a NASA ASRS report or insurance claim form, but I've never literally feared for my life when I've been training someone.

I'm just trying to get instructors to keep things in perspective. This topic holds a lot more importance than many instructors realize. If a student/customer walks in to a lobby full of instructors and hears them BSing about how they almost died today on a training flight because of their stupid student, how is that going to make the new guy feel? How is that going to reflect on flying as a whole? It unnecessarily gives the impression that flying is dangerous, risky, and difficult to learn. It makes the new guy a lot more scared of learning to fly and makes a new instructor a lot more worried than he should be. Flying might have elements that are dangerous and difficult, but they aren't found very readily in the flight training world.
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:yeahthat:
I can think of only one instance where I was genuinely afraid for my life with a student. I had to start throwing punches to get his leg off the rudder pedal to recover that spin. Once he let off however I had it recovered before one more rotation.

Then the cussing began
 
mshunter said:
Good, so I'm not the only one who does that! Why is it that new students always land to the left of the center line to? Man thats frustrating:banghead:.
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I find it funny that when I tell them that they are not on center line and they argue with me.
 
splash said:
Wait, they may be right ...but for just for the one second they cross it.
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Haha gotta love it when your student (in maybe a 1 or 2 kt cross wind) manages to drift from one whole side of the runway to the other on a 100' wide runway in the flare! Starts on the left and I end up kicking the rudder when we nearly drift ever so slowly all the way across and off the right.

Havn't seen this yet on the nearbye airports 150' runway yet but I will someday I hope.
 
I love how their crosswind correction suddenly disappears in the flare 9 out of 10 times....if they ever had it to begin with.
 
mshunter said:
Good, so I'm not the only one who does that! Why is it that new students always land to the left of the center line to? Man thats frustrating:banghead:.
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I've had this issue with almost all of my students. Although the left turning tendencies are much weaker at an idle power setting they are still present.

Also think of the way the body works. As a students left arm is pulling back for the flare their wrist will rotate to the left.

In a low wind situation where there is little need for drift correction -- tell your students as they flare to kick in a little right rudder and be aware of their wrist. If this doesn't work just have them aim for the right side of the runway. haha.
 
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