Oh Alaskan..

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Speaking of stupid, at a “virtual” airline (wink)…


Let’s just say for the type rating, there was no oral and just a systems test with A, B, C, D. And let’s just say that if you’re getting the type, there was a pretty likely chance you may come across that document. You can do many things. Be happy. Less stress. Better studying. More focus on integrating flows and procedures with systems. No sweating. Actually focusing.

Here’s what you don’t do…

You don’t sit there in class, WITH THE AIRLINE POI present, and then state that you have a systems exam with highlighted answers.


Now? Goodbye A, B, C, D test. Hello oral exam for anyone getting the type.


THIS is the stupid category for the pilot involved. Absolute moron! What a special breed of dumbass.

Of course, my standard disclaimer that this is a virtual airline and did “not” happen in real life.

 

[TWP]

So, I might be showing my age here, but this e-mail might fulfill all of these requirements.

Whether folks like what this chief pilot said or not, she didn't threaten discipline. If anything, she was telling one of her colleagues that he was being a buddy •er, and that he should reconsider doing so in the future because it's rude.

In the world I grew up in, this was a laudable goal. And in the grand scheme of things a supervisor can do to an employee where is concerns violating terms of employment, this is pretty benign.

But let's step through this:

Does this need to be said? Yes, the pilot who did this is screwing his bros.

Does this need to be said right now? Yes, without a timely reply, the issue is lost.

Does this need to be said right now by me? Yes, the person sending the e-mail is their supervisor and has a requirement to counsel those who fall under their supervisory structure. If anything, this is a friendly warning by a colleague to stop • around before they find out.

It always blows my mind that pilots act like children, and then are surprised when they get treated like children. Any rational adult could see this kind of response as being a likely outcome. What's worse is that any rational adult would give their supervisor a heads up that this was, in fact, the only appointment they could get and that they're not acting maliciously.

In the end, I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I can't stand buddy •ers. They're commonly bad pilots, and even worse people. Whatever ills they invite upon themselves always seems to be well deserved in retrospect.

Obeying the rules, and even using those rules to one’s advantage does not make them a buddy violator.

Corporations love to push this stuff so you’ll “complete the mission” or do them favors that they will never return.

 

[BobDDuck]

Obeying the rules, and even using those rules to one’s advantage does not make them a buddy violator.

Corporations love to push this stuff so you’ll “complete the mission” or do them favors that they will never return.

I think your missed the Train's point. If I am more senior to this person while on reserve, I have a reasonable expectation that I will not have to work over a period of days, unless they too are working over that period of days, assuming a seniority driven system.

Sure, you can follow the rules and make the system work for you, but when you do it at the expense of other pilots (much like picking up open time with pilots on furlough) expect to receive little to no sympathy when bad things happen.

 

[JordanD]

I think your missed the Train's point. If I am more senior to this person while on reserve, I have a reasonable expectation that I will not have to work over a period of days, unless they too are working over that period of days, assuming a seniority driven system.

Sure, you can follow the rules and make the system work for you, but when you do it at the expense of other pilots (much like picking up open time with pilots on furlough) expect to receive little to no sympathy when bad things happen.

I’m supposed to have sympathy for the senior guy who bids reserve on purpose thinking they’ll have enough of a buffer to not get called? That’s the game, especially the last few weeks.
Stuff happens. People get sick. Vaccine appointments may be limited. I sense a lot of “guilty until proven innocent” in some of these replies.

 

[mikecweb]

I have a question for @jtrain609 or anyone else thinking this email was necessary. Should I write an email to my immediate supervisor when they use the vague language of the contract to hook me into working extra days, even holidays? Days that I wasn't supposed to work but their crafty use of the contract allowed them to force me to work? Screwing plans with family or friends. Disappointing me and others.

I'm sorry but management and "the company" stopped being family when they started effing us, this isn't Kentucky.

 

[JordanD]

this isn't Kentucky.

I’m offended.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I’m offended.

…but aroused

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I’m supposed to have sympathy for the senior guy who bids reserve on purpose thinking they’ll have enough of a buffer to not get called? That’s the game, especially the last few weeks.
Stuff happens. People get sick. Vaccine appointments may be limited. I sense a lot of “guilty until proven innocent” in some of these replies.

Booster, maybe.

First vaccine shot of Moderna/Pfizer? Absolutely not! That is called gaming the system. Could have gotten that shot anytime the last 6-7 months.

 

[Adler]

Here’s what you don’t do…

You don’t sit there in class, WITH THE AIRLINE POI present, and then state that you have a systems exam with highlighted answers.


Now? Goodbye A, B, C, D test. Hello oral exam for anyone getting the type.

Ha! Reminds me of Pinnacle.

We had a Fed in our class, going all of new hire training with us for something or another to oversee things. He told us, he's there as a classmate, not as the FAA. And he was true to this, a super cool guy, very experienced, great stories from the Air Force and as chief pilot at a legacy. One day the teacher didn't show up. We waited and waited, and finally the Fed got up, and said although he can't actually teach the CRM class today, he can tell us the story of how a CRM failure led to him ejecting out of a T38. We listened, it was an interesting story.

As he spoke from the front of the room, a classmate we called Fat Bob, was sitting in the front row, noticed on the teachers desk was the systems test coming up at the end of the week, took it, and began writing it all down.

The Fed eventually noticed, since Fat Bob was far from sly, "Bob, what in the hell are you doing?!"

Fat Bob mumbled something about studying, while shuffling papers around. The Fed stayed true to his word, he was a classmate not from the FAA, and nobody ever heard about the incident.

Fat Bob was fired a few months later, for other offenses.

 

[Skåning]

Fat Bob was fired a few months later, for other offenses.

Plot twist: Fat Bob is now at alaskan

 

[TWP]

I think your missed the Train's point. If I am more senior to this person while on reserve, I have a reasonable expectation that I will not have to work over a period of days, unless they too are working over that period of days, assuming a seniority driven system.

Sure, you can follow the rules and make the system work for you, but when you do it at the expense of other pilots (much like picking up open time with pilots on furlough) expect to receive little to no sympathy when bad things happen.

It’s exactly this point I am arguing.

You as an employee are not doing ANYTHING EVER at the expense of other pilots when you follow the contract. It is, by definition, an impossibility. If anything, you are helping your fellow pilots by enforcing the contract you all labor under. When a negative outcome occurs to you because another pilot followed the rules, it is the company violating you.

On a side note, expecting not to fly is a surefire way to get called for some flying. The aviation gods can and do read your mind, and they know when to ruin your happiness.

 

[JordanD]

It’s exactly this point I am arguing.

You as an employee are not doing ANYTHING EVER at the expense of other pilots when you follow the contract. It is, by definition, an impossibility. If anything, you are helping your fellow pilots by enforcing the contract you all labor under. When a negative outcome occurs to you because another pilot followed the rules, it is the company violating you.

On a side note, expecting not to fly is a surefire way to get called for some flying. The aviation gods can and do read your mind, and they know when to ruin your happiness.

Every. Single. Time.
I had two stand alone reserve days, fairly senior (screwed up my bid) and my wife and I took a chance and got a hotel in base and planned to do some tourist stuff. Sure enough I get assigned a two day two days out, and my wife got to explore by herself while I rotted away in a hotel on the opposite coast. Annoying, but we both knew it was a possibility. If I had promised I would be home for Christmas because I was senior on reserve and wouldn’t get used, I would be an idiot.

 

[Roger Roger]

Every. Single. Time.
I had two stand alone reserve days, fairly senior (screwed up my bid) and my wife and I took a chance and got a hotel in base and planned to do some tourist stuff. Sure enough I get assigned a two day two days out, and my wife got to explore by herself while I rotted away in a hotel on the opposite coast. Annoying, but we both knew it was a possibility. If I had promised I would be home for Christmas because I was senior on reserve and wouldn’t get used, I would be an idiot.

This holds true outside the airlines as well.
“Hmm, grab a single night shift for OT pay? Sure why not, probably won’t even fly”
*gets assigned a complete trainwreck all-nighter*

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It’s exactly this point I am arguing.

You as an employee are not doing ANYTHING EVER at the expense of other pilots when you follow the contract. It is, by definition, an impossibility.

Uh huh. Yet pilots get pissed if one simply follows the contract and picks up opentime at 150%, being almost 2 yrs into past amendable date.

 

[tcco94]

Is Alaska hurting losing people these days or what's going on over there? I know all the airlines are pretty strapped for staffing.

I know someone who was in class at Widget, who came from AS, and put in a quit notice and reminded chiefs countless times about his resignation. Day 2 of class he got a call from scheduling asking why he wasn't at the plane in Seattle for check in, only to tell the scheduler he quit over a week ago. LOL. I heard the recorded phone call, it was pretty funny.

 

[Skåning]

Is Alaska hurting losing people these days or what's going on over there?

Attrition has only been 40+ a year but will be increasing as the Majors continue to hire. Anecdotally it seems several people per new hire class are bailing too. The contract and management is such an ess-show that folks are realizing there really is no redeeming quality about this place.

 

[tcco94]

We got texts before the holiday weekend to "help our bros and sis out and put in a slip to fly over the holidays". I thought to myself how am I helping someone already flying on the holiday, by working? I suppose one could argue reroutes for those working, sure. But do guys working the holidays really care about others having it off? I never have. Most reroutes I've had paid a lot more money for the reroute, usually make my trip better too *shockingly*.

Oh and how did I get the holiday off being junior? I bid 3 green slips before Christmas to roll my days off to get the holiday off. So it wasn't like I wasn't doing anything all month. But the text seemed an odd hail mary to get people to work. I don't pick trips up because I'm thinking "well my other coworkers are working today, so should I".

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I’m offended.

F YOUR FEELINGS!

 

[Autothrust Blue]

We're only a "family" when it benefits the company, my furlough notice had my employee number above my name.
The only thing that kept me off the street was negotiating.
Perhaps if these days were so important to the operation the company should have offered something up, instead of trying to extract value outside the agreement by guilt tripping pilots for coloring between the lines in a totally obvious and easily foreseen fashion.

The Ferengi advise you that exploitation starts at home.

 

[Minuteman]

Nooo. No. That's just some • Janeway said, probably to justify some new horrific "command decision."