ODPs

400A

400A

New Member
This was a great discussion on another forum.


If you depart under IFR (135/121/etc) you must fly the ODP unless ATC gives you a vector or route in conjunction with your take off clearance (PERIOD).

Just an FYI to help knock some dust off, if it needs to be.
 
Of course, I was talking to the "professional" side of the house, sorry for the confusion.
 
tgrayson said:
I think this isn't news to the professionals. ;)
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You'd be surprised. The thread I believe 400A is referring to ("Children of the Radar Vector" on another board) involved instances in which 121 jet aircraft weren't properly following ODPs when not under radar control.
 
MikeD said:
Thats not nice.....
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There was nothing snide in my comment. I used quotes to denote my train of thought, nothing more. I fly/flew only 135/121 save for my instructor days, I have a simple line of thinking. Again, sorry for the confusion, I won't offer any refreshers anymore.
 
400A said:
There was nothing snide in my comment. I used quotes to denote my train of thought, nothing more. I fly/flew only 135/121 save for my instructor days, I have a simple line of thinking. Again, sorry for the confusion, I won't offer any refreshers anymore.
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Oh. Nevermind then. I read into it. All good :)

And offer all the refreshers you like. It's good to review.
 
One of the areas that presents confusion is the term "cleared on course." This does not equal "radar contact", nor does it necessarily mean "cleared direct", and I've had ATC get confused about it. Also, ATC usually does not have the ODPs depicted on their radar. As an example, while departing KLRU I was performing the ODP in IMC:

LAS CRUCES, NM​
LAS CRUCES INTL​
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE:​
​
​
​
​
​
​
​
​
Rwys 4, 8, climbing
right turn. Rwy 12, CAT A,B, climb runway heading
CAT C,D, NA. Rwys 22, 26, climbing left turn. Rwy
30, climbing runway heading to 5100 then climbing left
turn.​

All aircraft​
​
​
​
​
​
​
​
​
​
climb direct HAWKE LOM. Continue
climb in HAWKE holding pattern (SE, left turns, 304°
inbound) to cross HAWKE LOM at or above 10000​

before proceeding on course

After checking in with ATC I was informed "Cleared on course." Nothing about radar contact, nothing about "cleared direct EWM VOR". So I conducted the ODP. After a few minutes ATC came back and asked why I was holding at HAWKE- he had cleared me on course and expected me to go direct to EWM. He also tried to claim that when he said "cleared on course" it was assumed I was radar contact. I worked this out with the ATC supervisor during a phone call.
 
tgrayson said:
(f) Civil airport takeoff minimums. This paragraph applies to persons operating an aircraft under part 121, 125, 129, or 135 of this chapter.
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400A said:
If you depart under IFR (135/121/etc) you must fly the ODP unless ATC gives you a vector or route in conjunction with your take off clearance (PERIOD)...
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:sitaware:

400A said:
...I won't offer any refreshers anymore.
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I know the feeling.

-mini
 
minitour said:
I know the feeling.
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Ah, 400A edited his original post and added "(135/121/etc)", which was not there in the original post. He added it only after I quoted 91.175. You can see that if you look at the text that I quoted in my original reply.

So I will throw it back at you: :sitaware:


;)
 
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