NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misunderstandin

Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

flyover,


How about Marylin Manson? Would you think he's out to kill the pope based on his lyrics? Might want to check out some of the lyrics to the tune 1996 off of Anti-Christ Superstar.

How about the singer from Otep? Does she want to kill all the men of the world? Probably not, but she was raped and it shows in the song Filthee.

How about KorN? I don't even need to say much about that one for anyone that listens to old KoRn as they would know the meaning of track 6 off of the first album as much as me. This song means something different to every person that listens to it.

Or even System of a Down, the politically charged band that hates the Bush administration.

---------

Was it the riches, of the land,
Powers of bright darkness,
That lead the noble, to the East,
To fight the heathens

We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens
We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens
We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens
We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens

We must call upon our bright darkness,
Beliefs, they're the bullets of the wicked,
One was written on the sword,
For you must enter a room to destroy it,
International security,
Call of the righteous man,
Needs a reason to kill man,
History teaches us so,
The reason he must attain,
Must be approved by his God,
His child, partisan brother of war

---------

Does this mean System of a Down is advocating killing American's? Nope, not in the least; it's a reference to the Turk's slaughtering Armenian's I believe. Didn't help that the singer grew up in Beirut while there was some decent fighting going on there.

My point? Don't make assumptions about someone's music because you read the lyrics and took one single solitary meaning out of them. I can point to you countless examples where you would misinterpit the meaning of a bunch of the bands that I listen to, and take very seriously. Unless you can tell me you speak some Arabic and are really digging on these dudes tunes then you probably don't have much of a base to make your statement.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

This is nothing about music. I could care less. This is about a woman being villified for being suspicious about the activities of 14 Syrian men on her flight. She was supposed to ignore such things.

The fact that she included in her observations and assessment that these guys were middle-eastern (a correct assumption) is cause for a hysterical condemnation. If she had been observing a girl's college volleyball team and been alarmed, this apparently would have been OK. Norman Minetta must have just about blown a cork when he found out these guys were middle-eastern. He specifically does not want any Arabs suspected of anything. It's the Inspector Clouseau approach with any Arabs being Maria Gambrelli, absolutely no chance they are guilty. (This is my version of pop culture, you can have Marylin Manson).

The only way this woman could have been any more villified is if she had been one of Kerry's swift boat commanders.

(In a particuarly cranky mood bacause I'm tiling my bathroom).
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]
Terrorists are out to get us, but these folks were NOT terrorists, according to the FBI and the Air Marshalls.

On top of that, I am thoroughly disgusted by Jacobsen's fear mongering

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easy to say that after the fact, after the background checks . . . but when one is in the air . . . with susupicious activity going on from no matter who . . . one's level of uncomfortability SHOULD raise! It's a natural reaction.

Before you know people are clean, and you're in an environment where you do not have much control, it's VERY reasonable for her alarm to go off.

Why are people making her out to be the bad guy? In today's world, one should always maintain a heightened sense of vigilance . . . especially when out of one's own comfort zone.

If you are so naive to ignore any potential warning signs, you open increase your vulnerability and set your self up for whatever harm comes your way.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

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And as for the "selective terrorism" of the Syrians, I don't view anyone who advocates blowing up civilians as any kind of friend to me and mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
This is nothing about music. I could care less.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've made it about music, not me. I'm picking apart one small little part of your post.

So does Manson want to kill the pope?
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]
This is nothing about music. I could care less. This is about a woman being villified for being suspicious about the activities of 14 Syrian men on her flight. She was supposed to ignore such things.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between being suspicious and inciting panic. She crossed the line. Suspicious people alert the proper channels, and keep watch on what's going on until better qualified personnel are on the scene. Panic inciters alert the proper channels, the media and whoever else will listen. If they are told that they were wrong and shown evidence contrary to what they were thinking, it doesn't matter. They still COULD have been right, and maybe they were. Hence when she was told they were musicians, she was still insisting it was a "dry run." We already have enough panic in the streets at every loud noise and person wearing a turban. We don't need this nutcase making it worse.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]
How about KorN? I don't even need to say much about that one for anyone that listens to old KoRn as they would know the meaning of track 6 off of the first album as much as me. This song means something different to every person that listens to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the song entitled "Faget"? I thought it was about Jon Davis's youth when he was bullied? I might have the album wrong though, was it the self-titled?

Speaking of Korn, here's an old movie you might find interesting:

Evil Cats Video by Doug -- you might have to load it and then replay it.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]
s the song entitled "Faget"? I thought it was about Jon Davis's youth when he was bullied? I might have the album wrong though, was it the self-titled?

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed the right album, I was making the implication that the guy wasn't going to go out and pull a Columbine even though he was treated like poop in school. Probably didn't allude too well, though.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]

Evil Cats Video by Doug -- you might have to load it and then replay it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Twist, twist.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

Korn almost got me "Kilt dead".

I was out mountainbiking and decided that I wanted to listen to some music during the ride.

Bad decision.

So I'm listening to "A.D.I.D.A.S." and riding WAY too aggressively, skidding around a tight turn on a technical downhill area, did an "endo" over a rock, slid for about 10 yards on my stomach thru brush and gravel and bloodily ripped up my shirt and riding shorts.

"Where's my bike?" I thought.

*****BAAAAMMMMMM!!!***** the bike hit me so hard in the head, it broke my helment *and* bar end on impact.

Note to self: Don't ride to music.

Cost me a lot of scabs, a neck I debated whether or not was broken, some riding clothes, two anza bar ends, a Shimano Deore XT rear deraillieur and a cordless cyclometer that I never found.

Oh, and Kristie called me a dumbass I think. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

Dave, what do you want me to do? Take the word of one woman with NO training in security, law enforcement or counterterrorism?

Or take the word of the air marshall that was on the flight, the spokesperson of the air marshall's service, and the FBI?

I'll go with the latter. You're entitled to go with Jacobsen if you want.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

First of all, I said I was wrong on the quote.

Second, if you look at her statement, it violates some pretty fundamental values of the America I want to live in:

1. We do not invade other nations unless they present an imminent threat to us.
2. We do not assasinate foreign leaders
3. We do not force people to adopt a specific religion.

What's that saying of Franklin's again about liberty and temporary security?
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

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What's that saying of Franklin's again about liberty and temporary security?

[/ QUOTE ]

He was a hippie communist anyway, Tony . . .

Besides, he didn't know how different the future would be. Anyone can tell that if he were here now, he'd say . . .
[/sarcasm]
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]
Dave, what do you want me to do? Take the word of one woman with NO training in security, law enforcement or counterterrorism?

Or take the word of the air marshall that was on the flight, the spokesperson of the air marshall's service, and the FBI?

I'll go with the latter. You're entitled to go with Jacobsen if you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take the word of the FAM too, who said in a Time magazine article:

"I understand why the passenger felt some anxiety about activity on Flight 327," he says. "But that kind of activity was unusual but not a security incident. There was never a threat to the plane."

Also you have decided to ignore the other passengers who have spoken up and hammer the ONE woman theme. Convenient, but just ignoring facts.

My point was that these guys were acting, at the very least, like a bunch of asses. I'd say the information that has come out reinforces that, including the FAM's comments and his actions on the flight. If I get your point it is that some Syrians boarded a flight and went to the bathroom and some "bimbo" went hysterical. I disagree.

The FAM says the activity was "unusual" but didn't become a security "incident". Well duh. That's just about a perfectly filtered bureaucratic double-speak line.

And as we continue to deal with domestic security issues what are civilians supposed to do? Be alert for "unusual" activity. As a former cockpit crewmember I appreciate, for example, the guy on that flight who positioned himself at the forward galley, ready to lay it all on the line to defend the cockpit. You think, I assume, he's a racist buffoon who got shook by an hysterical woman (nobody reported she was hysterical) or just didn't understand that Syrian musicians needed to visit the lavs many times on a flight.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, I said I was wrong on the quote.

Second, if you look at her statement, it violates some pretty fundamental values of the America I want to live in:

1. We do not invade other nations unless they present an imminent threat to us.
2. We do not assasinate foreign leaders
3. We do not force people to adopt a specific religion.

What's that saying of Franklin's again about liberty and temporary security?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe anybody did not get the tounge-in-cheek point she was making. She was flipping the goal of radical Islam back on them. You do need to stay away from Coulter's columns. Besides there are other venues for biting political comments, like when Al Gore compare's the Bush administration to Hitler's. That's much more reasonable.

And BTW, your number one point is wrong. Completely contradicted by our national history. This is a comment intended to make Bush look bad that just doesn't work. Start with Clinton and Kosovo and work your way back through all our military excursions and see how many times you can make that statement true.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

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Hence when she was told they were musicians, she was still insisting it was a "dry run." We already have enough panic in the streets at every loud noise and person wearing a turban. We don't need this nutcase making it worse.

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First of all what were the 9/11 terrorists occupations? Did they put "terrorist" on credit applications? Oh, OK, they're musicians, that settles that.

Second, she was there. She insists she saw what she saw. Other people that were there agree, including one frequent flier who spent most of the flight standing in the galley in position to defend the cockpit. And a FAM who agreed it was "unusual" activity and did a lav search and called ahead for people to meet the flight.

So she was there and says she saw what she saw. People that weren't there insist she didn't see what she saw. Hmmmm. I'll go with her version, especially since it's backed up by other passengers who were there, including a FAM.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

I think flyover, what he is trying to say is that once she found out that they were musicians, were released by the FBI, did go play a concert (etc) she still wrote the article which basically made more people afraid to fly again. Her writing the article created an unnecessary hysteria that could have been easily avoided. I think that's what Tony meant by that quote.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

[ QUOTE ]
I think flyover, what he is trying to say is that once she found out that they were musicians, were released by the FBI, did go play a concert (etc) she still wrote the article which basically made more people afraid to fly again. Her writing the article created an unnecessary hysteria that could have been easily avoided. I think that's what Tony meant by that quote.

[/ QUOTE ]

People are throwing the "hysteria" thing around like candy. I haven't noticed much of it. Here's the interesting thing to me. When I was in a postion to get information directly from field guys I heard about dry-run operations. The comments were direct and to the point. We "know" they are happening and we are tracking them.

Then the top guys, in an effort to squelch this story, say "oh,no. There's nothing like that going on. Never heard of such a thing."

What happened here, I think, is someone observed something and was in a position to write about it. Like many people who bring messages that are unwelcome to bureaucrats, she's getting her knees cut off. She is sticking to her guns and getting some support from other passengers. Clearly it is her opinion that it was a dry-run. She could be right or wrong. But the idea that nothing unusual or suspicious was going on during that flight just doesn't add up, in my opinion.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

The reason that people come down on Jacobsen is because she continues to insist, despite the fact that every single law enforcement agency involved says she's wrong, that she saw a bunch of terrorists planning to hijack a plane.

Add to that her spreading her fear mongering across the web, thus scaring passengers the industry needs off planes, and you've got another reason to pound her.

What do you want, Dave? You cannot prove a negative. How are those people supposed to prove that they are not terrorists? Seriously.

Besides, in the America I want to live in, we presume that people are innocent unless we have evidence otherwise. I guess not in Jacobsen's America, with her concluding that we can't give people their civil liberties.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

Is this in the lav yet?
John H. the only thing I missed was the chance to respond in a timely manner to your post...my bad (I only log on at work.) The point I was trying to make is that when you group or "lump" anyone into a category and then use a microscopic number of that group to define the whole it is wrong no matter what side your on (right or left.) The generalization was made by skibum to cast a negative shadow on a very large of group of christians and I think it was wrong. I also think that lumping "homicidal maniacs" into the Arab Muslims group is wrong.
 
Re: NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misundersta

I think it's doing pretty 'ok' outside of the lav. On topic, for the most part and no one started the "You're a stupid dummy head" yet.
 
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