Number of Flights Worked
- Thread starter crow
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pilotmike327
Well-Known Member
I work afternoons. Never more than 40 release.
Mainline_or_bust
Airplanes fly on PFM, Change my mind
Night guy here, probably average 35 on a normal night with 10 passed on to me from the morning shift. Morning shifts have average of 55 these days. However, when we were short staffed 65 was the norm. That many and I don't believe that you have operational control, but it wasn't my name on the release.
Flagship_dxer
Penske Material
I work at a legacy major. There are a few desks where 30-45 flights in the air at one time is standard.
CPZ9900
Well-Known Member
121.533. If you can't safely flight follow, then stop releasing flights. You have a regulatory duty to flight follow, not keep pumping out releases. I am pretty sure that's an argument your employer doesn't want to have with the FAA.
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
I've heard this question asked many times over my career. The answer is, it doesn't matter. There is so much more to it than simply asking "how many releases". Every airline has its own unique operating footprint. Aircraft type, route structure, dispatch tools, operating practices, company duties and responsibilities, the day's weather, etc., are just some of the many variables that factor into one's ability to maintain operational control.
What will make a far bigger difference in your ability to maintain operational control is your ability to ask for help when it is needed, not "how many releases".
The issue is more about collecting data in an effort to change company mindset from what the accountants say we can do vs what is functional. If all your competitors are doing x over a 10 hour shift and you are doing x+20 with a similar model then you have data to say "this is too much" with data to support your position which is the only thing they listen to. What good does it do you to ask for help if everyone has too many because the company refuses to accept what is an acceptable workload without data. Just because I can work up 60 releases and have operational control over 90 flights doesn't mean I should. You can't argue with people who live by numbers if you don't in fact have numbers to support your position.
PHL_Approach
Well-Known Member
At my last shop, due to a merger and people quitting because a move was approaching we were extremely short staffed so during training I was doing 96. One desk that came in and took over for the Overnight desk had 115 a few times. ASAPs for filed for months and nothing ever happened. Even heard our Inspector say "The Company knows how we feel about the workload situation, but our hands are tied"... What?!? So we continued doing 100-80 flights a day for probably two years. It dropped a little bit when staffing on marginally got better. Doing I think about 75. And when I finally left, mornings was doing 58-65 and afternoons 35. But this company has had ALOT of aircraft leave the fleet so I believe mornings is now around 50 last I heard and I'm unsure about afternoons.
At the regional I come from....it was about 70 on the morning shift, and on the evening shift you would write about 30 releases and inherit about 25-30 flights either in the air or yet to depart that had been written. This was based on a ten hour shift.
I am at a major now, and domestically we write about 25-40 releases on the morning shift and 8-20 on an evening shift. I don't know what the breakdown is internationally.
I am at a major now, and domestically we write about 25-40 releases on the morning shift and 8-20 on an evening shift. I don't know what the breakdown is internationally.
MAK49
Well-Known Member
While I'm not a dispatcher, I work in the OCC alongside them. For our dispatchers, depends on the shift (there's three shifts: AMs, Mids, and PMs). AMs shift there is usually two dispatchers who work about an average of 18-20 flights each. Mids works 10-15 or so (depending on schedule), and PMs works whatever is usually remaining, anywhere from 10-20 as well.
Burrito
Position And Hold My Beer
At the end of the day, no matter the work load, it's your name on the legally binding document that is a release. Not some idiot manager, not their idiot boss, not the guy in Florida with a tee time of 9:00AM sharp who just ordered 20 more jets from his cellphone. No matter the shop, when you send it and sign it, you're responsible for that plane.
Some would call me obsessive when it comes to this industry - even from my ramp days. "Am I the last one to service this aircraft?" "Did I spray this aircraft down thoroughly and safely during de-icing?" Call me what you want but I'll say "I won't sign that" / "I won't send that" if the captain and I talk it over and we can't agree on something. Weather, maintenance, ferry-outs, whatever. You get the talk from the FAA. Your release, your name.
Can't stress how much I love this industry, but I also hate how stupid it gets. "Towbar launched through nose wheel....again..." "Struck by lightning when we flew through convective activity...again..."
DispatcherSam
Well-Known Member
Your place does it differently unless they changed things since I left
MAK49
Well-Known Member
They've definitely changed it since you worked there. When I first started, dispatchers would go in and throw their names on releases to kind of "claim" them, in a sense. If they got too overloaded or the other dispatcher had time or any of another multitude of things, they just kind of would work together to figure out who would do what. They also used to do multi-leg releases when I started.
Now, all releases are single legs. They also now are assigned flights, generally myself or co-workers who have the same position (operations agents, formerly called assistant dispatchers) go into our crew scheduling program and use a highlighting tool of sorts to show which dispatchers are assigned to what flights. We try to split them evenly among the dispatchers. They can also come in and trade flights, modify the assignments themselves, etc. It's still very much an open system of sorts.
But in any case, it all depends on flight workloads. Some days we have maybe 90 legs total, other days more than 125 legs or so...or tomorrow, only about 20 legs.
Now, all releases are single legs. They also now are assigned flights, generally myself or co-workers who have the same position (operations agents, formerly called assistant dispatchers) go into our crew scheduling program and use a highlighting tool of sorts to show which dispatchers are assigned to what flights. We try to split them evenly among the dispatchers. They can also come in and trade flights, modify the assignments themselves, etc. It's still very much an open system of sorts.
But in any case, it all depends on flight workloads. Some days we have maybe 90 legs total, other days more than 125 legs or so...or tomorrow, only about 20 legs.
pljenkins
Resident Knucklehead
CPZ9900 said:
I love when these discussions evolve into "just stop working".
Here's a thing to think about. The number of releases is irrelevant to the workload.
Let me say that again so you understand. The number of releases is irrelevant to the workload.
70 releases on a VMC day with no ATC initiatives might prove overwhelming to some dispatchers. There is no "magic number" that the FAA is going to say "nope, you go no further". What constitutes a busy day for one dispatcher could be overwhelming for another. It is the DISPATCHERS responsibility to utilize ALL tools at his disposal, and that includes DRM. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a dispatcher sinking into the tall grass and not turning to his fellow dispatchers for help. If you start finding yourself task saturated, the LAST resort should be self help in the form of independently shutting down the operation. If you haven't told the supervisor on duty that you are over your head or made an attempt to be proactive, you might be surprised if the FAA is less than impressed with your choice of action, and certainly the company less so.
69beers
Well-Known Member
Hands down the best sentence of this thread. This is because the FAA has never done a fu€¥ing thing about workload, no matter what 8900.10 states. The sad reality is that none of the dispatch inspectors, at least that I've met, are going to do anything that constitutes a resemblance of work if it might raise a wave or cause the POI to put their airline in check. I recently had the unfortunate experience of listening to a gaggle of dispatch inspectors drone on about how it's the dispatcher's responsibility, and only theirs, to manage workload. When one was questioned (by one of your coworkers and website members here) they mumbled and fumbled like a senile senior and tried like hell to turn off the conversation ASAP. It was absolutely pathetic, yet defining of our FAA inspectors (with the exception of GR & AG). The truth is that many or most are career bankrupt legacy dispatchers with no retirement, or career commuter dispatches who never made it to a major. They simply are riding out their time for their government retirement and are not going to do anything that might require anything close to an effort or a fight involving an airline vs. CMO.
DispatcherSam
Well-Known Member
I just work what I'm given, if I get behind, I pawn off a few flights, and if I'm slow, I'll take some from someone who is lagging. At my regional operation we have desks that primarily deal with the northeast us and others that deal with the remainder, and the load can vary quite a bit depending on the day and how the operation is moving, or maybe Capt Skyking wants some extra handholding. So many factors that affect the number of flights we work.
@MAK49
Sounds like it's becoming more like a legit operation. I kinda liked the multi-leg releases, but I know the FAA was itching to get rid of those, and for good reason!
@MAK49
Sounds like it's becoming more like a legit operation. I kinda liked the multi-leg releases, but I know the FAA was itching to get rid of those, and for good reason!
MAK49
Well-Known Member
I think a bit of it was the FAA wanting to deal with getting rid of them, but the company definitely got the ball rolling towards single-leg releases after a few instances of mistakes with the multi-leg releases...obviously with the three companies being under one banner, after accidents and incidents over the last few years with some of the other companies the big focus for all of us at the different OCCs is safety, for sure (not that it ever wasn't the focus, and I can only speak for us here at ANC over the last year I've been here). So anything we can do to implement and focus on getting there before we have to or are forced to in any way, I think is a good thing.
Our POI talks a big game. He has a history of forcing changes on the company as well. He recently made appearances in recurrent saying to file ASAP's and use real numbers and if the company won't make a change he will. We shall see what happens with that. With our recent management changes, they seem to agree that there is a workload issue, but at this point its about collecting useful data to find a point where "an average competent dispatcher can do their job without feeling overwhelmed" as one of our managers put it.
Luigi
Well-Known Member
And here I was so happy he wasn't in my recurrent.