Nose gear malfunction landing from a few years back

MikeD

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
At CMA. A pretty good job here. Yeah, yeah, we all know the arguments between shut the engines down or not; thats what insurance is for, blah blah. Neither side is right or wrong, it's pure technique. In this case, the pilot chose to shut down the engines, and had the time and SA to even be manipulating the starter on each. Whether you agree with the technique or not, it is indeed interesting to see it in occurrance. And the landing was successful.

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Props still touched, so teardowns are still in order (not mandated on Continentals like they are on Lycomings, but still a good idea.)
 
trafficinsight said:
Props still touched, so teardowns are still in order (not mandated on Continentals like they are on Lycomings, but still a good idea.)
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Interesting, I always thought the engine had to be running to require a tear down. Not sure why I thought that though.
 
rframe said:
Interesting, I always thought the engine had to be running to require a tear down. Not sure why I thought that though.
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Depends on the manufacturer... If memory serves, Pratt & Whitney radials requried a teardown inspection for any prop strike.
 
rframe said:
Interesting, I always thought the engine had to be running to require a tear down. Not sure why I thought that though.
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Technically with a Continental even a running engine doesn't mandate a teardown. With a Lycoming any prop strike, running or not, requires a teardown per AD.

But like I said, even if it's not mandated it's still a good idea. A few years back a guy landed his 210 at an airport near here and his passenger walked into the turning propeller, killing the poor guy. I'm not sure I could imagine doing this myself, but a few hours later he took off again and had a catastrophic engine failure. I don't remember reading anything that proved that one caused the other, but it is a possibility.
 
Nice landing...and interesting seeing where the stock market was a few years back (and where it might be again, but I digress).
 
That's exactly what we did when we put the Duchess i was training in on her nose, except I didn't pull the levers for the props until the gear touched down. My CFI did the flying and I killed the engines. Worked out great, although the left tip of one of the props did touch if I remember correctly.
 
Actually that was at VNY. I did some instruction for that flight school, until I realized how "good" their maintenence was.
 
That was nicely done.... He got a little touch on the controls there for a bit after he touched down, Don't want to plant the tail, but overall well done.
 
I feel that especially if this was at VNY, he had aloooot more room on that runway. I feel the pilot should have kept the engines on for just a little longer because it came close to not making the runway.
 
spoolinup22 said:
I feel that especially if this was at VNY, he had aloooot more room on that runway. I feel the pilot should have kept the engines on for just a little longer because it came close to not making the runway.
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He shouldn't have shut them down at all. Life>engines.
 
mshunter said:
He shouldn't have shut them down at all. Life>engines.
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Pilot call. If he feels he has the runway made and all else fine and wants to shut them down, so be it. If he's unsure or otherwise chooses not to, so be it. It worked in this case, so kind of difficult criticize, although it should be emphasized that one needs to really be on their game to do it his way. In this case, he was.
 
MikeD said:
Pilot call. If he feels he has the runway made and all else fine and wants to shut them down, so be it. If he's unsure or otherwise chooses not to, so be it. It worked in this case, so kind of difficult criticize, although it should be emphasized that one needs to really be on their game to do it his way. In this case, he was.
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You know as well as I do that this forum has been around this bush before. Personally, I think the pilot did a horrible job, and got ham fisted at the end. Seems like there was some tension there.

But me personally, I'll let the insurance take care of the engines for me. No need to compound the situation and more than it already is by elminating you only source of not just climbing, but extending your glide a little to. If you plan on shutting them down, wait till your on the ground like this guy.

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Remember Mike, I did some instructing at that place. I know the safety culture of the place, and I know the motivation of shutting them down as well. There is an examiner who I have a semi-personal relationship with out here who wouldn't do checkrides at that school.
 
mshunter said:
You know as well as I do that this forum has been around this bush before. Personally, I think the pilot did a horrible job, and got ham fisted at the end. Seems like there was some tension there.

But me personally, I'll let the insurance take care of the engines for me. No need to compound the situation and more than it already is by elminating you only source of not just climbing, but extending your glide a little to. If you plan on shutting them down, wait till your on the ground like this guy.

Remember Mike, I did some instructing at that place. I know the safety culture of the place, and I know the motivation of shutting them down as well. There is an examiner who I have a semi-personal relationship with out here who wouldn't do checkrides at that school.
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Im talking decision-making and end-state, not technique. In this case, the pilot got the plane down in one piece safely, so what he did in this particular case is all that Im judging. Had he balled it up, his decisions would indeed come into question. It's technique partner, pure and simple. Works for some, doesn't for others. Is he reducing his options and committing to the end-game by shutting down the engines? Sure he is. But that's his PIC decision making. It'll make him a hero or a zero, depending.

In the vid you posted, shutting them down prior wouldn't have made any gain (perceived or real), with having the 3-blade props, as you're going to drag them anyways.

Now, if you want to discuss safety culture at a particular FBO, flying club, etc, that's a whole separate argument altogether. Whether or not it played a factor in this incident is also a separate discussion. I personally don't think it should be mandated either way; it is and should be the pilot's call.
 
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