Norwegian Deny NAI / now DOT-approved

Maximillian_Jenius said:
I think that you forget that it's the oligarchs that are pushing for globalization. And Trump is an elite. You think he's going to help the aviation industry. When his clothing products are made in China, Bangladesh and Indonesia all to save a buck.
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Exactly!
 
chrisreedrules said:
I am not disillusioned about who Trump is. His platform however was one of saving US jobs. If he wants to do that, this will be a good place to start.
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Really? Make America Great Again. Bring jobs back to America, and railing about offshoring jobs. But all his merchandise isn't even made in America. Really, really?

I mean Obama was preaching hope, and change. I didn't fall for that. But my God the hypocrisy here. Unfortunately so many others DID fall for it.
 
MSUDAWG said:
With a comment like that, you obviously are oblivious to what is going on here. It is not a good thing for the airline labor force in the US...not in the least bit....Are you familiar with the shipping/boating industry and what happened to them? May want to do some research....
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Here's my strategic view: I'm more concerned about the American and global economy as a whole than the interests of one sub-group of one specific sector.

Here's what's happened in the cruise industry:
upload_2016-12-3_10-35-0.png

(source: https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch7en/appl7en/global_cruise_passengers.html)

Passenger volumes have doubled every 10 years and have weathered the recession well. The increasing volumes of cruise passengers have then led to a boom in hotels, flights, and activities in American port cities. How much of the MCO air travel market is a result of the growth of the cruise industry?

Ok...but what of the maritime freight industry?
upload_2016-12-3_10-50-19.png

(source: https://www.statista.com/statistics...t-in-international-maritime-trade-since-1970/)

Shipping volumes have increased by a factor of 4 since 1970. Both domestic retailing and manufacturing are now reliant on overseas production.

In air transport policy, it almost always comes down to airlines vs all other sectors. I believe that low-cost flights from small markets to Europe is a good thing for America as a whole, but perhaps not so great for one specific sector. To me, the value of getting more Americans to Europe is far more important than the concerts of three domestic airlines.
 
Seggy said:
This could absolutely destroy our industry. Look at what happened to the Merchant Marines.

What's not to say now that a current US Flagged airline will reflag their airplanes in Ireland and abide by the concept NAI is going to use?
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Asked and answered. Apparently they wouldn't be able to as someone further up stated. Because they have to be 51% American owned.

But honestly, this is my greatest fear.
 
hook_dupin said:
Here's my strategic view: I'm more concerned about the American and global economy as a whole than the interests of one sub-group of one specific sector.

Here's what's happened in the cruise industry:
View attachment 37127
(source: https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch7en/appl7en/global_cruise_passengers.html)

Passenger volumes have doubled every 10 years and have weathered the recession well. The increasing volumes of cruise passengers have then led to a boom in hotels, flights, and activities in American port cities. How much of the MCO air travel market is a result of the growth of the cruise industry?

Ok...but what of the maritime freight industry?
View attachment 37128
(source: https://www.statista.com/statistics...t-in-international-maritime-trade-since-1970/)

Shipping volumes have increased by a factor of 4 since 1970. Both domestic retailing and manufacturing are now reliant on overseas production.

In air transport policy, it almost always comes down to airlines vs all other sectors. I believe that low-cost flights from small markets to Europe is a good thing for America as a whole, but perhaps not so great for one specific sector. To me, the value of getting more Americans to Europe is far more important than the concerts of three domestic airlines.
Click to expand...

You aren't mentioning the decline in well paying maritime jobs of American citizens and the national security implications.

This isn't good. At all.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Asked and answered. Apparently they wouldn't be able to as someone further up stated. Because they have to be 51% American owned.

But honestly, this is my greatest fear.
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No, you are confusing the two schemes.

There is absolutely nothing that can prevent US Airlines from flagging their aircraft in different countries.
 
Dan208B said:
Well... US airlines have to be 51% US owned... So that kind puts the kibosh on that.
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Ownership and where an aircraft is flagged are entirely different.

A good example to see how this could play out would be look at who owns Costa Cruises...
 
Seggy said:
You aren't mentioning the decline in well paying maritime jobs of American citizens and the national security implications.

This isn't good. At all.
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The flip side is to look at how many more jobs were created. I offer that transportation sector jobs have increased to the point of a rather large domestic truck driver shortage (I saw a stat of a 240,000 trucker shortage by 2020... these are $100K/year jobs for hard work. Compare that to this "airline pilot shortage" of about 2,000 new hires at the majors per year). On the rail side, there's a reason why Warren Buffet, the Sage from Omaha, bought BNSF (a business as unionized as any airline) in 2009. I offer that the domestic transportation sector's economic gains have far eclipsed the losses specific to the merchant marine sector. Here's the changes in truck tonnage:


upload_2016-12-3_11-35-28.png

(source: http://www.roadscholar.com/investigative-report-2016-trucking-industry-forecastexpectations/)

Here's where I think we do Americans wrong: we don't help those hurt by industry shifts reposition themselves into growth sectors. As an example: coal miners can't magically become solar panel install technicians overnight without some type of help.

From a national security perspective, I believe trade to be a very stabilizing force. The threat country I am most worried about is North Korea -one who has chosen to not be part of a globalized system of trade and information. But what do I know? I'm only a national security professional tasked to take a strategic view of the world and then position my organization accordingly.
 
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Seggy said:
Well, do you back the PAC? Have you partaken in ALPA's Call to Actions? Money and involvement will hopefully help stop this.
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Realistically, can this be battle be fought and won? There are small battles being won in the war, like Brexit. But I think ultimately globalization is going to happen. When and how soon? Who knows. Too much transfer of wealth to be made off the common man for the oligarchs, in a globalized society. This is more evidenced IMO by the cost of education continuing to rise. The cost of living rising, and salaries going down not up to match. And also the slow but assured death of the middle class. Unfortunately I think that this is inevitable.
 
hook_dupin said:
Here's my strategic view: I'm more concerned about the American and global economy as a whole than the interests of one sub-group of one specific sector.

Here's what's happened in the cruise industry:
View attachment 37127
(source: https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch7en/appl7en/global_cruise_passengers.html)

Passenger volumes have doubled every 10 years and have weathered the recession well. The increasing volumes of cruise passengers have then led to a boom in hotels, flights, and activities in American port cities. How much of the MCO air travel market is a result of the growth of the cruise industry?

Ok...but what of the maritime freight industry?
View attachment 37128
(source: https://www.statista.com/statistics...t-in-international-maritime-trade-since-1970/)

Shipping volumes have increased by a factor of 4 since 1970. Both domestic retailing and manufacturing are now reliant on overseas production.

In air transport policy, it almost always comes down to airlines vs all other sectors. I believe that low-cost flights from small markets to Europe is a good thing for America as a whole, but perhaps not so great for one specific sector. To me, the value of getting more Americans to Europe is far more important than the concerts of three domestic airlines.
Click to expand...

I hope you lose your job too.


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ian said:
Yeah cuz that worked so well this time....
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Without the PAC this would've been approved in 2014, we have a lot of friends in Congress who we've given money to who oppose this and are willing to support legislation to stop this scheme, and if we want to succeed we need more money and involvement.
 
Seggy said:
Without the PAC this would've been approved in 2014, we have a lot of friends in Congress who we've given money to who oppose this and are willing to support legislation to stop this scheme, and if we want to succeed we need more money and involvement.
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HR 5090?
 
amorris311 said:
Then he won't do a damn thing to reverse this. How many orders does Boeing have from NAI and the ME3? How many other low cost startup/domestic airlines will place large orders for long range planes now that this gate is open? There are plenty of higher paying jobs with Boeing then with the legacies. You said it yourself that the legacies will not go away they will just shrink their international route structure. To think this will be easily reversed or if Trump will reverse it to save jobs is disingenuous.
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At first the "D-Day" will start at the east cost. Norwegian converted an Airbus order from 320 to 321 NEO LR. I know for sure that my former "mob" is also evaluating the possibilities. Ryanair agreed already to feed Norwegian. I assume that MoL will also have a close look into a possible long haul operations. Within the next 5 years I'd guess another 5 to 6 LCC's will follow Norwegian.
 
Did anyone go to the job fair in MIA? someone else is telling me NAI had a pretty long line.

Upsetting is an understatement, if true
 
MikeD said:
I don't think anyone could necessarily reverse it, Trump or otherwise. The bigger problem I see, is that our government seems to have no issue with foreign airlines being free to compete, yet we throw hoops in front of our own domestic airlines that they have to jump through, instead of lessening restrictions/requirements on them, and allowing them more freedom to be competitive. If anything, and in the spirit of "America first", we should be doing what we can give our domestic carriers as much a leg up as possible. Instead, it seems that we may be seeing cabotage restrictions slowly being chipped away.
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This. They're two ways to level the playing field: place restrictions on foreign carriers, or loosen restrictions on our carriers. Right now we have the worst of both worlds, and that's thanks to our federal government.
 
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