Norwegian Air Faces Collapse

MikeD said:
Agreed. What I was trying to say is that while 10 years isn't mega-ancient history, there seems to be so many people who do not know the story, that these guys have been mostly unaffected it seems. Or like you say, no one cares at these places.
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I throw a lot more blame at the people who wrote the scope clauses for that sort of thing.

“We don’t want that little airplane!”

No, sir, you do — you want ALL the airplanes.
 
MikeD said:
Well, he's at a mainline, so he did something right.

"See that guy? He flew for Feeedom A!"

"Flew for who?"

"Feeedom A, he flew for them!"

"Who is Freedom? An airline?"

"It's that airline Ornstein started up"

"Who is Ornstein?"

Ancient history that few people even remember, or care about, due to its relative insignificance. Even though it was treated at world-ending career-wise back then.
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For it is the doom of men that they forget....
 
BobDDuck said:
Pepperidge Farm remebers.

Also... 10 years is hardly ancient history.

The douchnozzels (can i say that?) that jumped the list from TSA to GoJets at the beggining, or even the ones that were hired there while Transtates was furloughing may have made it on at Delta because nobody cares, but they are still douchnozzels for doing so.
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But they’re rich douchenozzles, and in this country that makes them right. Right?

They played the game. You (collective—this isn’t addressed at you, @BobDDuck.) literally can’t defend that on one hand and attack it on the other... and I think if many of you were more intellectually honest, you’d be forced to acknowledge that the hypocrisy here is subtle but present.

This isn’t a call-out, but a challenge to carefully examine the realities of some of the ideological constructs that you hold inviolate.

-Fox
 
Acrofox said:
This isn’t a call-out, but a challenge to carefully examine the realities of some of the ideological constructs that you hold inviolate.

-Fox
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There have always been those who scabbed, picked up extra flying during times of furlough, and made buddies in crew scheduling in order to get the good trips. There always will be.

My ideological construct (there's a fancy term for a simple idea!) is standing firm. Those that harm others by putting their own life improvement first, outside the standardized norms that we normally live under (PWA, "luck" and social security number/age at date of hire) are less than ideal people to have in the industry. The only thing that has changed are the penalties (slashed tires, death threats to family, general shunning in the cockpit etc etc) that are applied. With no penalties, you're right... somebody of weak moral character would see no disincentive to take advantage in these situations.

As somebody who has vested 13 of my last 15 years in making an industry that is better for everybody - who plays by the established rules - I really don't see a need for a careful reexamination of my ideology.
 
Acrofox said:
But they’re rich douchenozzles, and in this country that makes them right. Right?

They played the game. You (collective—this isn’t addressed at you, @BobDDuck.) literally can’t defend that on one hand and attack it on the other... and I think if many of you were more intellectually honest, you’d be forced to acknowledge that the hypocrisy here is subtle but present.

This isn’t a call-out, but a challenge to carefully examine the realities of some of the ideological constructs that you hold inviolate.

-Fox
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You’re wrong. The thing that separates airline pilots from almost any other work group is that the vast majority of us won’t step on somebody else’s neck just to climb the ladder.
 
adk said:
You’re wrong. The thing that separates airline pilots from almost any other work group is that the vast majority of us won’t step on somebody else’s neck just to climb the ladder.
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You must've never worked corporate or 91/135. Also, I do see it with the way our scheduling works, so I don't even think it applies to my particular rubber dog poo company. Oh yeah, also the scabs of strikes past, Jet U people (ahem, @Cherokee_Cruiser :biggrin:), etc. There are quite a few examples of us eating our young/pulling up the ladder/just being horrible people.

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying you're wrong. ;):p:D:biggrin:
 
Stone Cold said:
You must've never worked corporate or 91/135.
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There is a reason I said airline pilots and not just pilots. And maybe I’m just being optimistic but we haven’t seen more than a handful of scabs in over 30 years, so maybe we’re getting better.
 
adk said:
You’re wrong. The thing that separates airline pilots from almost any other work group is that the vast majority of us won’t step on somebody else’s neck just to climb the ladder.
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Yes and No. In the airline world upgrades and pay are done by seniority so there is less climbing of the ladder. However what I've seen (and heard) a lot in contract negotiations is the "Screw the jr people people concept." What I've learned is that pilots will sell other pilots out in second if it works better for them.
 
Eagle421flyer said:
Yes and No. In the airline world upgrades and pay are done by seniority so there is less climbing of the ladder. However what I've seen (and heard) a lot in contract negotiations is the "Screw the jr people people concept." What I've learned is that pilots will sell other pilots out in second if it works better for them.
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Yeah, you can believe the pilot world is no better than other corporate employees. They would absolutely step on someones neck to move up if it werent for unions and the seniority system.
 
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