No show fees

sorrygottarunway

sorrygottarunway

Well-Known Member
Well, I have my first pangs of guilt for charging my first no show fee. I had a lesson for a cross country today (saturday) for 3 hours, and the student cancelled 2 hours beforehand, because he didn't feel well (hangover anyone?) . Our chief CFI is ape• because his student cancelled as well. The only problem is that I know my student is on a tight budget, so this is a lot of money for not showing up. We charge the full 40/hour for the CFI's time, and 20/hour for the unflown aircraft. For a cross country lesson that adds up... I am a little annoyed though, as I personally set up the lesson with this kid yesterday.

Just wondering your opinions....
 
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Well, I have my first pangs of guilt for charging my first no show fee.

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So how was your 1st time?
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Seriously though.....

When I was training they would charge 2 hrs of the ground fee. There would be no charge for the airplane though. That would be a tough one to swallow. I would think someone gets a 1 time pass. If it becomes a pattern then the $$$ would start adding up.

Did the student admit to having a hangover? I don't know the guy obviously but that's a big assumption to make. People do get sick. I know I had to schedule my XC's multiple times becuase I kept getting wx'd out. That's a pretty big day to go out and get sick for.

That being said, if htey know the no show fee and don't show well then there is no real reason to feel guilty about it. I even canceled once knowing full well there was a fee.

Don't get to worried, there will be more.
 
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I know my student is on a tight budget, so this is a lot of money for not showing up.

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Then maybe this will make a lasting impression on your student.

Your student also has the opportunity to explain the call 2 hours before the scheduled time. You can always have the student talk to the chief about reversing the no show charges if indeed, the story sounds plausible.
 
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We charge the full 40/hour for the CFI's time, and 20/hour for the unflown aircraft. For a cross country lesson that adds up... I am a little annoyed though, as I personally set up the lesson with this kid yesterday.

Just wondering your opinions....

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I hate charging no show fees as well. I'm fairly relaxed about it, but there are times when it's deserved. I had a student no show a couple of weeks ago and I let it slide because he had always come on time and prepared in the past. Then he didn't show again the next day. No phone call or anything. I was happy to charge him the fee the second time.

At my school the written policy is to charge $29 for one hour of the CFI's time and the full $65 for an hour of 152 aircraft time. I only charge the $29 for my time and none of the directors of the program have ever said anything to me about undercharging. I think $29 is fair.

I've always thought no show fees are excessively steep in the aviation world. What do other professions charge? I can't think of any that charge close to $100. But then again, I always just go to my appointments, so I haven't had to deal with it. Maybe fees are higher than I think.
 
I guess with the high fuel prices, the tensions at the flight school are running high anyway. I don't like noshow fees, I think whacking students with a 2x4 is much more effective.
 
At my current flight school (Bowling Green State University) we charge students 1 hour of ground the first time they no show ($37). The second time, its one hour ground/one hour flight ($154) and the instructor can use the one hour of flight if he wants!

Most of the little punks I instruct right now don't care cause its mommy and daddys money. Going out and getting hammered the night before is more important to them. Oh well, two more weeks and I'm moving to Raleigh, NC!
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Why do you feel bad, if you do you are saying your time and effort are not worth anything. I wish we could charge for the whole time that was scheduled, I need to eat and pay rent. Plus make them understand that you inly get paid when the engine is on, so you lost out on money. If they don't like it tell them okay, but thats life.
 
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Why do you feel bad, if you do you are saying your time and effort are not worth anything. I wish we could charge for the whole time that was scheduled, I need to eat and pay rent. Plus make them understand that you inly get paid when the engine is on, so you lost out on money. If they don't like it tell them okay, but thats life.

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I agree with SF. You eating dinner tonight is based on whether or not your students show up. I didn't usually charge the student if they called before hand and cancelled (even though I don't think it's a bad idea), but definately charge them for your time when they don't even bother to call.
 
Here's the way I see it: if it only happens on rare occasions, and the student actually CALLS, then I'm okay with it. If they start pulling the cancelling day-of on a frequent basis, I'm all for charging a cancellation fee. If the guy just doesn't show up, he's getting charged my full fee. To me, that's a disrespect of my time to not even bother to call. Most of my training was scheduled at around 9-10 am start times, so if I was sick, I probably wouldn't know until less than 2 hours before the flight (I wouldn't wake up at 7 or 8 since I only lived 5 mins from the airport), but I always called. I'd rather a student use good decision making if they aren't feeling well and call than try to force a flight or keep it under wraps for fear of being charged a fee.
 
If they eventually show up, the clock starts running at the scheduled time as far as I'm concerned. The time was agreed upon by both parties prior to the lesson. Now, if the guy calls and says he's gonna be late, then I'll cut him some slack.....unless they start doing it every time. Then it's time for a little chat on punctuality.
 
I have one student that shows has shown up late for every lesson except one so far. This is his second week of training. But since I'm coming pretty close to running out of duty time, I'm cutting him some slack so far. But when he starts to hurt my wallet, we are going to have some problems.
 
Ok, here's a question, what is late?
I'm a student, and I assume that if my scheduled time starts at 10:00, then I don't expect to get the keys and start pre-flight until 10:00. Should you be all preflighted and ready-to-go at 10:00? I've never thought of getting there "early" especially if the plane may not be checked in from the last flight.
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That's the way I usually expect a schedule to run. If a lesson starts at 10:00, I'd like to see the student coming through the front door at 10:00. Dispatching and preflighting the plane takes 15 or 20 minutes, so I'd like to be starting the engine by about 10:20. Of course, if I'm introducing a new topic that day, I spend at least 10 or 15 minutes on the ground briefing the lesson, so that could bump the engine start time to 10:30 or 10:40. Assuming a two hour lesson period, that still leaves 1.2 or 1.3 hours to fly, which I believe is the ideal length of a flight.

In short, no, I don't expect students to come and preflight the plane before their assigned lesson time.
 
if the plane is there, I expect them to be preflit very close to the start time. I'm there early to make sure I meet at the right time, and get back from other flights to make sure I'm on time. If they plane is there, they should be ready to go.

I have a half dozen students or so that are good on this. Preflight is always done within 5 minutes after scheduled start time, unless the plane is back late from the previous person. Those students don't get charged by me for time on the odd chance a plane is not there for them to get ready on time. They care enough about my time, and I'll show that in not charging for things beyond their control. All about respect. Both ways.

I think other people that bring planes back in late should pay for my time for every tenth they are late (supposed to be back at noon, walks in the door at noon:15, they pay me for .3 of my time, even if I don't know them. Teach 'em to not be late coming back). That shouldn't be at my students expense. They are waiting as I am, but why should they pay for it, if all we are waiting for is a late plane. One day, when I own an FBO...
 
I also take the "if the lesson starts at 10:00, then the student should be walking in the door at 10:00" mind set. If he gets there early, and the plane is there, bonus. Otherwise, it's no big deal. We tend to fly the wings off our planes, so the odds of the plane taxiing in at about 9:57 are pretty good.
 
I would expect the student to show up no later than his/her scheduled time, but I prefer the student to be there about fifteen minutes early so that we can be up and running by the time the lesson is suppose to begin. Think of it this way......it takes about .2 after start up for taxi and run-up, another .2 to get out to the practice area, and about another .3 to get back to the pattern and land and taxi back to the ramp. Thats well over an half an hour that may not pertain to the actual lesson. The leaves only 1.1 (we are supposed to be back fifteen minutes before our flight slot ends) of productive training.
 
i'm not to anal about the on-time thing, just like many others i think as long as they are there at the scheduled time then everything is cool. as they progress in their training though i like them to be a bit early to check weather and what not. but if they at least can come in at the scheduled time and are able to do the weather and preflight in a timely manner then things are good. unfortunetly the occasional student will push those boundries and then things get sticky.
 
Hey, don't feel guilty in the least. It's your time too. And if you are scheduled with a particular student, and he/she no-shows, you don't make any money if you don't charge them - AND no-one else can schedule you.

Here, the first thing I do is tell my students to PLEASE CALL me if they are going to cancel - even if it's 30 minutes before the scheduled time - just call and we're square.

If they don't show and don't call 30 minutes after their scheduled time, I call them to see if they're coming.

If they're not, they get charged Instructor Time (not for the airplane rental) for the entire time they have me blocked off.

I had a guy block me off for four hours a couple of weeks ago. He was a "hand-me-down" from another instructor who left and I had been informed that he was notorious for either being EXTREMELY late or not showing at all.

So, on our first day, we had a little chat and I explained the above policy to him and he said "cool."

Sure enough, the very next lesson = no show.

I gave it 30 minutes, called and he said in a very tired voice "Oh, I can't make it today.....let's just bump it."

I informed him that was fine, but per the renters agreement that he signed he would have to pay for the entire 4 hours of instructor time.

He didn't like it, but I don't care. I've got a kid to feed.

Look out for #1, bro. Your time is worth $$$$. Be courtious to your students - be up front with them about the consequences of no-showing, call them if they are unreasonably late and then charge them if they no-show on you.

After all:

"It's not about the money......it's about the money."
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Best of luck!

R2F
 
I had to "no show/ no call" a student yesterday. He has a history of showing up very unmotivated. We'll get in the plane make it to the practice area, and do one manuever and now he doesn't feel like flying today or now he doesn't feel well. He's also cancelled on me on many occasions.

The day before another group had my plane scheduled from 1000-1200.....Then, I had it from 1200-1400 and again at 1400-1600. This student/ instructor eventually showed up at 1500....I missed one flight and had to reschedule the other flight. By having to reschedule, I then missed two hours of dispatch time I work in the evening. So basically these people screwed me out of about $50. That hurts bad on an instructor salary. Unfortunately, this group only got a slap on the hand.....and I'm still out $$$$$$.

So, when my student no showed/ no called........I felt bad, but I've been getting shafted and it wasn't about to happen two days in a row.

Do I feel bad? Yes, somewhat....but like others have said, time is money and it's not right for students to expect you to grin and bear it when you don't get paid for their lack of consideration.

Our policy at my flight school is to grant ONE FREEBIE....from then on, they are charged for 1.5 flight time. I will also try to give benifit of doubt for student...all they need to do is call. I don't like it, but hey as long as it isn't a pattern, I'll let it slide.
 
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