No more Hawker in Hawker Beechcraft?

Apophis

Apophis

Resident Iconoclast
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articl...hcraft-china-deal-collapses.html?CMP=News:S1T

After widespread doubts about the high purchase price, missed deadlines, and failed face-to-face meetings, the offer by Chinese businessman Shenzong Cheng and his wife, Qin Wang, to purchase Hawker Beechcraft for $1.79 billion has failed. The couple, operating as Superior Aviation Beijing, owns Superior Air Parts in Coppell, Texas, along with an American helicopter company that was moved to China but never got an order.
Hawker Beechcraft officials said in a statement Oct. 18 that they now plan to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy as a standalone company. The new plan would result in a sale of jet aircraft lines, or closure of jet production lines if no bids are received. “As part of this plan, the company, in consultation with its key creditor constituents, is evaluating its strategic alternatives for the Hawker product lines, which could include a sale of some or all of those product lines, or a closure of the entire jet business if no satisfactory bids are received,” the company announced.
The company will be renamed the Beechcraft Corporation, since no Hawker jets will be manufactured, and will focus on turboprop (King Air C90, 250, 350), piston-engine (Bonanza G36 and Baron G58), special mission (King Air) aircraft, and trainer/attack aircraft (T–6 single-engine turboprop). The company plans to keep and grow its parts, maintenance, repairs, and refurbishment businesses.
As part of the negotiation, Hawker Beechcraft received from Superior Aviation Beijing two payments of $25 million each that it gets to keep. The purpose of those funds was to keep the jet production lines open during negotiations. Major creditors have already agreed to the new plan.
Bill Boisture, chairman of Hawker Beechcraft Corporation, released this statement: “Beechcraft Corporation will emerge as the world’s leading designer and manufacturer of turboprop, piston and trainer/attack aircraft with the largest global customer support network in the industry. Our business strategy will focus on growing our key existing product lines: high performance single and twin engine piston and turboprop aircraft, uniquely missionized variants for the global special mission market, and multi-role light attack and trainer aircraft systems, as well as the product development opportunities within these segments.”
Hawker Beechcraft will soon file an amended Joint Plan of Reorganization with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York. A hearing is scheduled Nov. 15.
Hawker Beechcraft’s $400 million debtor-in-possession post-petition loan will be repaid fully in cash. In addition, the company will enter into a new financing package that will go into effect upon its emergence from Chapter 11.
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Interesting. Part of me is quite happy that yet another American aviation company hasn't fallen victim to the Chinese.
 
Plus:
As part of the negotiation, Hawker Beechcraft received from Superior Aviation Beijing two payments of $25 million each that it gets to keep.
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Thanks for the fifty-million dollar test drive.

I'm surprised that the primier isn't profitable line.
 
Douglas said:
Plus:


Thanks for the fifty-million dollar test drive.

I'm surprised that the primier isn't profitable line.
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I'm surprised anything is profitable there. The piston planes are such a low volume area, they can't make money. Who is going to buy an Bonanza or Baron these days, new? Very, very few. The KingAir line probably makes money, but other than that and the T-6, they've got nothing.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
I'm surprised anything is profitable there. The piston planes are such a low volume area, they can't make money. Who is going to buy an Bonanza or Baron these days, new? Very, very few. The KingAir line probably makes money, but other than that and the T-6, they've got nothing.
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There's a reason they got to where they're at, and it wasn't just the economy. Who is going to spend $750k for a new Bonanza, or $1.3 mil for a new Baron? Further, while I realize the tax incentives for buying new aircraft, but let's face it, no matter how much they "update" the design, the King Air line is getting really long in the tooth. Heck, 30 years ago, they admitted this when they produced the Starship. Now, 30 years later, we're still making King Airs.

Of course, the military will happily keep buying T-6's, and they're certainly making money there, but with respect to everything else, it's not exactly a great business.
 
Patrick said:
There's a reason they got to where they're at, and it wasn't just the economy. Who is going to spend $750k for a new Bonanza, or $1.3 mil for a new Baron? Further, while I realize the tax incentives for buying new aircraft, but let's face it, no matter how much they "update" the design, the King Air line is getting really long in the tooth. Heck, 30 years ago, they admitted this when they produced the Starship. Now, 30 years later, we're still making King Airs.

Of course, the military will happily keep buying T-6's, and they're certainly making money there, but with respect to everything else, it's not exactly a great business.
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Even with the T-6, the end of the line will come. They threw a fit about the A-29 vs AT-6 decision too, when it was buying airplanes that aren't even for this country.
 
Well, they don`t sell to the US market only, Beechcraft sells a lot of new planes down in South America, especially Brazil wich has a massive GA. I Have seen so many brand new Bonanzas and Barons, the King Air is the best seller right after the Citation line.

Peoples don`t really care if it`s worth 1.3 mio, or if they can get the same mission done for less, it`s just like with watches they buy the Beechcraft Brand...they have so much money they could care less...
 
I always thought the hawker was a good looking bird. Sad to see it go out of production if things don't work out.
 
Perhaps the reason that they're still making Bonanzas and Barons is that the design is just THAT good.

I'd take a Bonanza any day, and twice on sunday, over a Cirri or Corvalis. Hop up your Bo with tips and a Tornado Alley turbo kit, and you'd be hard pressed to beat it with anything.

The V-tail is still one of the most elegant designs in all of aviation, not just GA.

Richman
 
King Air is still a great airplane. They will be flying long after I am gone and maybe still in production then.
Bonanza is also a great airplane and while expensive new its cost verses the cost of taking a comparable used single and outfitting it with the same interior and avionics makes it a descent buy.
On the twin side not so much due to the continued depression of the used twin engine market and this will continue to be the case until the current supply of relatively cheap used twins is there. Heck, good Bananzas are still worth more than many twins. I once test flew the DA-42 for a client and it was a sweet airplane but I had to be honest with the guy. Told him he could get a C-310 with nice engines for around $100k. Said he wanted a new interior and paint. Told him okay- put another $50k in a nice interior and paint. Told me he wanted glass. Told him okay, put about another $50-75k in a glass cockpit and he still had a very nice twin engine airplane for about $200k that would haul more. To me it was a no brainer. He went with the 310 and I lost out on the commission I would have gotten from Diamond had he gone that route.
 
I love guns the most, but anything Beech is as a close second.
Skåning said:
Wasnt the Hawker like a 30 year old British design?
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Yeah, but you have to remember that 20 years ago that was a great business model. See Mitsu Jet.

KSCessnaDriver said:
The KingAir line probably makes money, but other than that and the T-6, they've got nothing.
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Eh, if you have the KingAir you have a lot.

vheissu said:
Never seen an airplane break as often as a premier.
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Eh, you should see the Horizon.

SpiraMirabilis said:
They should license build the Piaggio, simply because its my favorite turboprop and therefore it is obviously a good business decision.
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If Beech had only made that instead of the Starship. Plus, no one would have had to work with Burt! Bonus!!

Richman said:
Perhaps the reason that they're still making Bonanzas and Barons is that the design is just THAT good.

I'd take a Bonanza any day, and twice on sunday, over a Cirri or Corvalis. Hop up your Bo with tips and a Tornado Alley turbo kit, and you'd be hard pressed to beat it with anything.

The V-tail is still one of the most elegant designs in all of aviation, not just GA.

Richman
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Nothing to add but a "like".
 
jynxyjoe said:
Eh, if you have the KingAir you have a lot.
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It's getting a bit old though. Exactly how many times can you upgrade the airplane before it's just too old? I mean, the PC-12 has really taken a bite out of the market. Heck they admitted 20 years ago the product was old when they tried to replace it, and got killed with the replacement.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
It's getting a bit old though. Exactly how many times can you upgrade the airplane before it's just too old?
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Every airplane has a shelf life, completely understand your point. To answer your question, however, of how many times can you upgrade an old airplane and it continue to kick ass in a venerable fashion I give you exhibit A:
warthog.jpg

Exhibit B (only pictured is DC-9... could be the -30,-40,-50 MD-80, -88,-90, 717, same damn thing and I'd gladly take a 717):
DC-9_19.jpg


In short, a long ass time, and even after you are done using them and replace them, you will still have this hole in your heart and your operation and will search for a replacement for the replacement that is closer to the original.

KSCessnaDriver said:
I mean, the PC-12 has really taken a bite out of the market. Heck they admitted 20 years ago the product was old when they tried to replace it, and got killed with the replacement.
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Eh 27(?) years ago, when I was but a pup, some jackalope that Olive Beech grabbed from Learjet to head up the new Kingair project at the time said that the entire cockpit was outdated and needed to be redesigned like a jet. At the time the Kingair was the most popular turboprop in the corporate world, and thanks in part to them ignoring that moron the Kingair is now ubiquitous with the words, corporate turboprop. Thanks to a consistent approach from Beech and Raytheon or Onex or whoever owns them now, they have held the top spot in the market.

The PC-12 may take that spot over, may have already for all I know, but it's a radical change in corporate mentality when one engine is better than two. It's fine if that's what they want, but I don't think Beech will keep up with that shift. However, I wonder if people won't eventually go back to the Beech product after trying the Pilatus for a few years. Time will tell.

Companies have to adapt to move forward, Beech has never been able to do it well even with a train of managers and owners afterwards who gave it their best effort. When Olive ran the place common sense ruled and that's why they kept running as long as they did, as well as they did (though never the best). Olive's greatest mistake, in my opinion, was trying to follow Bill Lear in every product line.

Bill Lear made that Learfan to prove that he could, not because it would be a sales hit. It was his Sistine Chapel, and everyone was convinced that if Lear was doing it, it must be a good idea. Simply, Bill was the greatest mind ever to grace aircraft manufacturing. If Bill had been a researcher in the medical field, HIV and Cancer would be a thing of the past, and we'd all be embracing Bacta tanks as fact instead of Star Wars Science fiction. Right now some squeaky voiced nerd is wiping his sniveling nose with one sleeve and raising the other, vomiting out Burt Rutan's name. The reason Bill > Burt is because Bill made structures better than Burt and he understood the entire airplane front to back (including avionics) and the certification process (which Burt ignores because he doesn't understand it, but wraps himself in the inferior 'Experimental' cloak like a hero). Burt is still trying to convince anyone that will listen the reason he never certifies anything is because he just doesn't want to and doesn't see the value.

Thus ends my obligatory homage to Bill Lear that must be broke out once or twice a year, while stomping on the legacy of Burt Rutan. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
 
I'd pay $750k for a brand new Staggerwing before I would pay that for a Bonanza. If they would build 20 Stags per year at $750k I guarantee they would sell out.
 
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