No more experimental type ratings...

ahw01

Well-Known Member
The notice was saying that an aircraft flying experimentally has no type rating even if other versions of the aircraft do. E.g. You may register a B-25 as an experimental. If the DPE flies with you in that a/c you should get a LoA vs a Type, but some DPEs were typing everyone regardless of the aircraft's operating category.

Think the experimental examiners (AEA program) are just fine.
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
I don’t know the details but I have been seeing guys from the warbird community on Facebook saying the FAA sent cease and desist letters to war bird flight training providers. If the airplane is in the limited category they can no longer give training in it. This will effect a lot of people. Most warbirds are limited category.






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ahw01

Well-Known Member
I don’t know the details but I have been seeing guys from the warbird community on Facebook saying the FAA sent cease and desist letters to war bird flight training providers. If the airplane is in the limited category they can no longer give training in it. This will effect a lot of people. Most warbirds are limited category.






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Related to this?

 

Nihon_Ni

Well-Known Member
I don’t know the details but I have been seeing guys from the warbird community on Facebook saying the FAA sent cease and desist letters to war bird flight training providers. If the airplane is in the limited category they can no longer give training in it. This will effect a lot of people. Most warbirds are limited category.






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Can you give me the site for this? I'd like to follow the discussion.
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
Can you give me the site for this? I'd like to follow the discussion.
That was from a friends Facebook page that flies for Collins foundation among other warbirds. He was pasting it everywhere trying to get peoples attention of what’s going on.


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Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Related to this?

Outfits like this are why we can't have nice things. I'm pretty sure the FAA holds no umbrage toward legit flight instructors actually instructing legit pilots in the finer points of starting and flying creaky old radials. I kinda think they're probably interested in folks offering amusement rides marketed as "flight training." And, yeah, then we ALL suffer. Why can't everyone understand that the spirit of the law is almost always more important than its letters? (hint: 'cause then lots of politcally-contributing scam artists and 6 digit shysters would be out of biz.)

From the website: "We allow our guests the ability to do something they have always dreamed of doing… Flying the “The Pilot Maker” themselves. Pilot or not, our hands-on flight training packages range from introductory flights, thrilling aerobatic maneuvers, to full check out courses."

I reckon once in a while... a real pilot wanting real checkout experience comes to this outfit's door. But most of their clientele are like the folks who do a "Bay Tour" an "introductory instructional flight" at one of the south bay's finer beyond-25-miles-from-the-bridge flight schools.


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Inverted25

Well-Known Member
Outfits like this are why we can't have nice things. I'm pretty sure the FAA holds no umbrage toward legit flight instructors actually instructing legit pilots in the finer points of starting and flying creaky old radials. I kinda think they're probably interested in folks offering amusement rides marketed as "flight training." And, yeah, then we ALL suffer. Why can't everyone understand that the spirit of the law is almost always more important than its letters? (hint: 'cause then lots of politcally-contributing scam artists and 6 digit shysters would be out of biz.)

From the website: "We allow our guests the ability to do something they have always dreamed of doing… Flying the “The Pilot Maker” themselves. Pilot or not, our hands-on flight training packages range from introductory flights, thrilling aerobatic maneuvers, to full check out courses."

I reckon once in a while... a real pilot wanting real checkout experience comes to this outfit's door. But most of their clientele are like the folks who do a "Bay Tour" an "introductory instructional flight" at one of the south bay's finer beyond-25-miles-from-the-bridge flight schools.


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First they didn’t shut down the T-6 operation just the P-40. Secondly the owner of that Thom Richard is a prob one of the highest regarded warbird pilots out there. His operation is first class. He is legit as they come.


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Adler

Low-Level Individual
First they didn’t shut down the T-6 operation just the P-40. Secondly the owner of that Thom Richard is a prob one of the highest regarded warbird pilots out there. His operation is first class. He is legit as they come.


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Funny, from people talking at Reno, I thought he had one of the worst reputations among warbrids pilots.
 

ahw01

Well-Known Member
Funny, from people talking at Reno, I thought he had one of the worst reputations among warbrids pilots.
Unlikely to beat the FAA. Should have worked with them, set up a training program, sought an exemption...
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
Funny, from people talking at Reno, I thought he had one of the worst reputations among warbrids pilots.
Yea I mean my interactions with him were always first class. Look at all the different owners and museums that have him fly their warbirds at air shows etc. I have a hard time believing his reputation is bad and yet people still hand him the keys to all those planes. My guess is he rubbed a few people the wrong way out at Reno. I know he had that incident out there where he got hit from behind during the group takeoff


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Nihon_Ni

Well-Known Member
I talked to Thom for a few minutes on the flightline this weekend and he gave me some insight into the case. I've flown with him at his school and on the airshow circuit for the past 5-6 years, so we are acquaintances.

He said that if the FAA wins the case against him, it will fundamentally change the nature of flight instruction, which will then be considered as carriage of passengers for hire. So no more cross country instruction (at least as we currently know it), CFIs won't be able to fly on a third-class medical, and a couple of other issues that I don't recall the details about. He said that's why AOPA and all the pilot groups were joining the fight, not because of one operator fighting against the FAA, but because of the impact to the entire aviation community if the FAA is successful in recharacterizing the nature of flight instruction.

Unfortunately, even if he wins he'll never be made whole. The FAA unilaterally decided that after 75 yrs of flight instruction in Limited airplanes that it's suddenly so unsafe that they issued a cease and desist order. And because the FAA is a government agency, you can't sue them for damages if they were wrong. So if it turns out that this was an unjust injunction, he will only be able to have his legal fees reimbursed by the FAA, but not his loss of business revenue.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Just a guess here, but all warbirds were put under the microscope after the B17 crash in CT. I to have met Thom, and he's a very stand up guy that runs a clean operation.

Certainly sounds like someone has a beef with him and called the FSDO instead of talking to Thom about whatever their issue is/ was.
 
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Inverted25

Well-Known Member
I talked to Thom for a few minutes on the flightline this weekend and he gave me some insight into the case. I've flown with him at his school and on the airshow circuit for the past 5-6 years, so we are acquaintances.

He said that if the FAA wins the case against him, it will fundamentally change the nature of flight instruction, which will then be considered as carriage of passengers for hire. So no more cross country instruction (at least as we currently know it), CFIs won't be able to fly on a third-class medical, and a couple of other issues that I don't recall the details about. He said that's why AOPA and all the pilot groups were joining the fight, not because of one operator fighting against the FAA, but because of the impact to the entire aviation community if the FAA is successful in recharacterizing the nature of flight instruction.

Unfortunately, even if he wins he'll never be made whole. The FAA unilaterally decided that after 75 yrs of flight instruction in Limited airplanes that it's suddenly so unsafe that they issued a cease and desist order. And because the FAA is a government agency, you can't sue them for damages if they were wrong. So if it turns out that this was an unjust injunction, he will only be able to have his legal fees reimbursed by the FAA, but not his loss of business revenue.
Yea if they win against him it will have a ripple effect on flight instruction. I have a feeling that they will drop the case against him but ban instruction in Limited category airplanes to stop the warbird training. I do feel that all of this ties back to the B17 crash. I think warbird flying is under attack and if they get their way there will be no more of it.
 
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