No Go Around For You!

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PilotBeckfizzle

Well-Known Member
I was with a multi student the other day and he elected to go around. Tower comes on "state reason for go around". I think to myself, "hmm, never been asked this before", anyways respond to the tower with "pilot discretion" I wanted to say because of a "bad burrito" but I resisted.

Next thing I know the tower controller is all sorts of pissed off. Tower "Why are you going around?! I sequenced my traffic thinking you were full stop!!".

To this I respond "Sorry, doesn't matter why were going around, its our discretion. Sorry about the sequence, but not our concern when safety of flight is involved."

Very strange. Controllers have anything to chime in here?
 
You may have spoiled his intricately worked sequence, but you did nothing wrong.
 
PilotBeckfizzle said:
Very strange. Controllers have anything to chime in here?
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I'm not a controller, but it could be a million reasons. Might be another A/C on a circling approach coming the other way, helicopter, who knows?

If they ask you why, "approach not stabilized" seems like a good reason to me. "Because I feel like it" seems like a rather poor reason. In theory, you are supposed to comply with tower instructions unless there is some legitimate reason that you can't.
 
honestly, simply saying "go around" should be enough. Starting a conversation in that phase of flight is a waste of time and can be hazardous. That controller got his shorts in a tizzle over nothing. He should've been prepared for any outcome instead of just expecting a fullstop landing. In this example, pilot right controller wrong. My .02 cents for what its worth.
 
They're entitled to know why. If you interpret someone asking "why" as challenging your decision, you need to work on your self-esteem issues. If I were a controller asking you that question and you responded with some sort of BS like "pilot's discretion" you could kiss any favors or extra help from me goodbye, I might even tell you to go find another airport. Getting angry about you going around is an entirely different box of rocks and completely unacceptable.

I once heard Norcal go off on a GA guy for going missed after an approach somewhere when he said he was going to be full stop. Nevermind that the weather didn't allow him to see the runway. Had I not been busy doing other things I would have spoken up.
 
Ralgha said:
They're entitled to know why. If you interpret someone asking "why" as challenging your decision, you need to work on your self-esteem issues. If I were a controller asking you that question and you responded with some sort of BS like "pilot's discretion" you could kiss any favors or extra help from me goodbye, I might even tell you to go find another airport. Getting angry about you going around is an entirely different box of rocks and completely unacceptable.

I once heard Norcal go off on a GA guy for going missed after an approach somewhere when he said he was going to be full stop. Nevermind that the weather didn't allow him to see the runway. Had I not been busy doing other things I would have spoken up.
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Oh my... were you the same controller? :panic:

It's tough to interpret or convey things via a forum. The controller asked why I was doing the go around with a voice full of obvious discontent. If it was something like windshear or another issue that may have interfered with other landing aircraft behind me I certainly would have mentioned something about that.

Anyways, I spoke with the tower supervisor and the controller actually got a spank on the hand for the way he handled the situation.

In the end it doesn't matter if the controller sequenced traffic and I messed it up because my student went around. The controller needs to be ready for these things and not get pissed off at the pilot. Would he rather us of have crashed because we were afraid to mess up his pattern? Probably...

3green said:
honestly, simply saying "go around" should be enough. Starting a conversation in that phase of flight is a waste of time and can be hazardous. That controller got his shorts in a tizzle over nothing. He should've been prepared for any outcome instead of just expecting a fullstop landing. In this example, pilot right controller wrong. My .02 cents for what its worth.
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We were about 50' off the deck when the approach went south. I was pleased that my student elected to do the go around and immediately announced the "go around" to tower. There was no response so he said it again and that's when the above story took place. We were in no position to be discussing our go around--at this point it was just a matter of getting our VSI and IAS going up.
 
I had a controller tell me I was to land and not go-around one time. It was the only time I've ever asked for a phone number rather than told to take it. We talked it out afterwards. He was still out of line, though. I'm all about favors and stuff, but I don't expect them if my actions are to the contrary of someone's plans. I gotta do what I gotta do and so do they :)
 
First things first- a controller should plan on every plane missing the runway and going around. As pilots, you are told to hold short, or in position because someone else is landing on another runway. You wait, because the other plane, cleared to land, may go around.
Secondly- the controller asks for the reason for your go around so he can plan his next move. If you went around because of wind, that matters. If you went around because of birds, or deer, or another plane or vehicle on the runway, that means something to the tower. If you are having mechanical problems, or a light came on at the last second, it's okay, but say so. To respond, because I felt like it, or because I can, or some other answer like that, feel free to leave the pattern and fly to an uncontrolled field. The tower is there for a reason, to assist and control the use of the runways and airspace around the airport for the flying publics safety.
You can always go around, it is your right, and obligation if you need to for safeties sake. But just for the hell of it, get real.
 
atcyg said:
If you went around because of wind, that matters. If you went around because of birds, or deer, or another plane or vehicle on the runway, that means something to the tower. If you are having mechanical problems, or a light came on at the last second, it's okay, but say so. To respond, because I felt like it, or because I can, or some other answer like that, feel free to leave the pattern and fly to an uncontrolled field. The tower is there for a reason, to assist and control the use of the runways and airspace around the airport for the flying publics safety.
You can always go around, it is your right, and obligation if you need to for safeties sake. But just for the hell of it, get real.
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I agree with you 100% if it was a safety of flight issue for another aircraft I would have certainly said something. After we began the go around process I was busy talking to my student (1st time flying the type of airplane we were in). There was no "ego issue" behind me saying "pilot discretion". It was literally all I had time for. The 2nd part of the discussion came after we were positive rate, gear up and out of useable runway--and actually had time to talk.

I wish I could find the tapes on liveatc but looks like a lot of it was stepped on by other freqs. Again, the controller did get a "talking to" by his supervisor. The supervisor apologized to me, saying he shouldn't have responded the way he did, etc...

Edit: Maybe this thread deserves a little background information on the airport environment. Airport is one of the busier GA airports in the country with a fair amount of flight training and controller training going on. The runway we were landing on is typically designated for touch and go traffic. The controller was already stressed out (could hear it in his voice). Probably sick of dealing with incorrect read backs and general confusion that flight training can provide. It was a fairly busy time but by no means as busy as it can get.

I have the upmost respect for controllers at our airport as they do a fantastic job and they are always a welcome tower to come home to after a long trip. However, the point of this thread was to gain an understanding of what you ATC guys do. I assumed they always planned on an airplane going around. Hence, my frustration when I was being yelled at by the tower for messing up his pattern. That is the whole point of this thread. I was hoping a controller could shed light on this so I can help out controllers in the future.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I'm not a controller, but it could be a million reasons. Might be another A/C on a circling approach coming the other way, helicopter, who knows?

If they ask you why, "approach not stabilized" seems like a good reason to me. "Because I feel like it" seems like a rather poor reason. In theory, you are supposed to comply with tower instructions unless there is some legitimate reason that you can't.
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Whoa. Whoa! Making up excuses is lying. If I want to go around, I go around. They are there for me, not vice versa. You can comply with tower instructions all day long but in the end I make the decisions. Granted "because I feel like it" is a poor excuse but in the real world I see planes (heavies) go around several times a week. What I don't hear is the tower asking why only offering options (vectors to final or away to troubleshoot).

I have to ask-is this a contract tower?
 
Sounds like there was a momentary lack of commnuication between ATC and the pilot here due to a number of outside factors; glad it was able to be quelled quick and easy. Pilots: if you're busy flying the plane, a simple "standby" to tower until you can take the time to give them a proper response is no problem; as mentioned before, ATC might need to know if there's was/is problem. Again, we'd likely have to had been there on this incident to really understand both sides of it, but still there should be little issue.

Request the option....that way ATC is always ready for the go around! :)
 
MikeD said:
Sounds like there was a momentary lack of commnuication between ATC and the pilot here due to a number of outside factors; glad it was able to be quelled quick and easy. Pilots: if you're busy flying the plane, a simple "standby" to tower until you can take the time to give them a proper response is no problem; as mentioned before, ATC might need to know if there's was/is problem. Again, we'd likely have to had been there on this incident to really understand both sides of it, but still there should be little issue.

Request the option....that way ATC is always ready for the go around! :)
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I felt like pilot discretion was the best response at the time. You're right that standby probably would have been the better response to use. To be honest I'm not sure why pilot discretion came out. It was just the first thing that popped out as I was trying to get our airplane flying again instead of impacting terra firma.

Edit: I believe my reasoning behind pilot discretion was that it would imply that the approach for us was unsafe due to the training nature of our flight. I suppose I'm at fault for assuming and being vague.
 
ATCer said:
The only reason I ask is to make sure everything is okay. Other than that, it is your ultimate call.
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That's what I assumed and thank you. :) However, its fairly obvious when a controller and/or pilot has a irritated tone to him or her. As was the case with this controller.
 
PilotBeckfizzle said:
I felt like pilot discretion was the best response at the time. You're right that standby probably would have been the better response to use. To be honest I'm not sure why pilot discretion came out. It was just the first thing that popped out as I was trying to get our airplane flying again instead of impacting terra firma.

Edit: I believe my reasoning behind pilot discretion was that it would imply that the approach for us was unsafe due to the training nature of our flight. I suppose I'm at fault for assuming and being vague.
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When I get to actually talk to the planes in the air (as I am training on ground) if I get pilot's discretion as for a reason for a go-around I'll ask for clarifcation and to say intentions after a moment or so. Granted 90% of the time we are clearing the practice approaches for the option.
 
Well, at my place they want to know if it was something the controller did or u? We are under the close eye of the big man!!!:( For visual approaches (app Control) does not protect for a missed app. Sometimes, on a missed, you may need to go back into the app control airspace to do checklists or time, whatever. Most places want to know YOUR INTENTIONS. Others will have to fill out paperwork on your go-around. Had two today, excessive sink rate and landing emergency in front of an aircraft. Our place wants to know for paperwork and did the controller mess up.

Make sure you tell an approach controller you are planning to go missed on a practice approach, so he/she can plan for protected airspace for ya.

I as a pilot was always taught, for safety go-around, whenever.
As a Controller Protect for IFR aircraft Missed Approach, Visual approaches have no protection for a missed procedure. Hint: why you get alternate instructions for a planned missed
 
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