No brakes....

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empire

Well-Known Member
Does anybody here have experience teaching a new student in an aircraft without co-pilot brakes (Cherokee 140)? Any problems?
 
I wouldnt even think about it. There to many instances I can think of that you could need brakes on your side to keep the airplane on the runway/taxiway with a new student.
 
Just a quick question, but what model year is the Cherokee 140? I've got a 1975 (Cruiser) and it's got toe brakes on both sides in addition to the handbrake below the central portion of the instrument panel.

You can still control the aircraft's brakes from your side (no toe brakes) using coordinated rudder and handbrake inputs. It isn't as smooth as having toe-brakes, but it's far from impossible. In fact, I'm fairly certain that early model 140's didn't have toe-brakes on either side, only the centrally located handbrake.
 
In our 1969 Cherokee 140 there is only tow brakes on the pilots side and the parking brake. But there is a STC to put toe brakes on the co pilot side.
 
I've done it. You just have to learn to use the hand brake and rudder inputs. I def. feel most comfortable with toe brakes on my side, but I have worked without them. It's all about your comfort level. If you don't like it, don't do it - only one of the first decisions you will make in a career full of decisions....
 
some of the earlier cherokees didnt have toe brakes on either side. just use the johnson bar as your brake. you'll do fine
 
I've done it. I don't think I would do it with any student, but I taught a guy from zero time in his Cherokee 140 with no toe brakes on my side. Now, this guy had been operating construction equipment for 20 years, so he had a natural dexterity with machinery. The main thing you need to be sure of is that you have a quick, easy command if you want him to lay off the brakes.
 
Fly four different Cherokee's.
One of them has no toe brakes and just a handbrake in the middle.
One has no co-pilot toe brakes
And the other has two sets of two brakes and a handbrake.
The same thing can be accomplished with the different layouts, it just takes a bit of practice.
 
I haven't done a private student, but have done some instrument training and flight reviews in a non-right side brake configuration.

I just used the "thrust reversers"... (hand brake in the middle). Just practice with it a bit to make sure you get the feel of it and make sure that it activates both brakes evenly.
 
I've done some instructing in CT's, which have no toe brakes on either side. I can easily knock their hand off the brake handle if needed, but things also happen much more quickly than in a Cherokee on landing.
In the 140, if the student rides one brake, can you override that input with opposite rudder and/or handbrake? ie, student jams on left brake, if you grab the handbrake, do you get equal braking action on both sides to null out the yaw from braking? (partly asking b/c I haven't flown a Cherokee in a few years)
I'm thinking 'test' :) with another CFI for a bit, and see what your comfort level is before you walk away.
 
No biggie. Just make sure you're prepared & you brief your student properly. Maybe run through through a couple of scenarios where you would have to "take braking control".

Early Cherokees ONLY had a handbrake... It works fine from the right seat, just get familiar.
 
empire said:
Does anybody here have experience teaching a new student in an aircraft without co-pilot brakes (Cherokee 140)? Any problems?
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The question is, which side of the plane am I sitting on?

Get into an airplane with a student and I don't have brakes?

L

O

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Thanks for the advise.
I actually was thinking of putting the student in a 172 (with dual brakes) for a taxi lesson or two, to familiarize the student with the brakes.
 
empire said:
Thanks for the advise.
I actually was thinking of putting the student in a 172 (with dual brakes) for a taxi lesson or two, to familiarize the student with the brakes.
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Good idea! Give them some practice while you have the brakes and once you're comfortable with their brake use, then move over to the 140.
 
Grabo172 said:
Good idea! Give them some practice while you have the brakes and once you're comfortable with their brake use, then move over to the 140.
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Cessna140_2.png


Now that's the ticket!
 
if its got a handbrake in the middle its not a big deal at all. I've taught tons of private students in a Cherokee 180 with the same setup.
 
Grabo172 said:
Good idea! Give them some practice while you have the brakes and once you're comfortable with their brake use, then move over to the 140.
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If you do this, make sure you explain the differences in how the nose wheel steering works from cessna to piper. If they just figured out how to taxi the cessna, they'll try to put you in the weeds once you get in the piper.
 
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