Night Regulations

S

shdw

Well-Known Member
I have been going through the various regulations with regards to night flying and would like to make sure I have all of this right if someone doesn't mind confirming or clearing it up if I have something wrong.

Carrying Passengers at night: FAR 61.57 (b) (1) says that it is 1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise.

Night Currency: Would match the same regulation as the one above.

Loggin night time and night landings: As 61.51 only claims the landing and night time as "night" I would assume it is subject to the regulatory definition of night. That definition is anytime after civil twilight and before civil sunrise. (One issue I have here is you can log a night landing per this regulation at this time, but you can't use it for currency. That makes me question if I am interpreting this properly.)

Lights at night: As per 91.209 on aircraft lighting the requirements for needing lights on is anytime from sunset to sunrise.

How does that look? Am I missing anything or could the FARs I linked be more clearly defined? How do you teach these confusing regulations to students? Thanks in advance fellas.
 
shdw said:
I have been going through the various regulations with regards to night flying and would like to make sure I have all of this right if someone doesn't mind confirming or clearing it up if I have something wrong.

Carrying Passengers at night: FAR 61.57 (b) (1) says that it is 1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise.

Night Currency: Would match the same regulation as the one above.

Loggin night time and night landings: As 61.51 only claims the landing and night time as "night" I would assume it is subject to the regulatory definition of night. That definition is anytime after civil twilight and before civil sunrise. (One issue I have here is you can log a night landing per this regulation at this time, but you can't use it for currency. That makes me question if I am interpreting this properly.)

Lights at night: As per 91.209 on aircraft lighting the requirements for needing lights on is anytime from sunset to sunrise.

How does that look? Am I missing anything or could the FARs I linked be more clearly defined? How do you teach these confusing regulations to students? Thanks in advance fellas.
Click to expand...

Looks good to me too. I usually just teach students that you can fill in the "night" column in the logbook anytime you're flying between civil twilight and civil sunrise. However, if you want to carry passengers in the period between 1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise, you have to have made your 3 takeoffs/landings in that same period of time.
 
shdw said:
How does that look?
Click to expand...

As the other folks said, it looks good.

Also look at 61.101(i)(3), 91.151(a)(2), 91.155(a) and (b), 91.157(b)(4), and 91.205(c). Then there is the term "official sunset" used in places such as 103.11(b), which opens the question of what other kind of sunset is there. However, some years ago there was an NPRM that talked about "local sunset", which would be different than "official sunset" and would apply in areas that were in a valley. Mercifully, that NPRM was not adopted. The subject confuses enough people as it is.
 
shdw said:
I have been going through the various regulations with regards to night flying and would like to make sure I have all of this right if someone doesn't mind confirming or clearing it up if I have something wrong.

Carrying Passengers at night: FAR 61.57 (b) (1) says that it is 1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise.

Night Currency: Would match the same regulation as the one above.

Loggin night time and night landings: As 61.51 only claims the landing and night time as "night" I would assume it is subject to the regulatory definition of night. That definition is anytime after civil twilight and before civil sunrise. (One issue I have here is you can log a night landing per this regulation at this time, but you can't use it for currency. That makes me question if I am interpreting this properly.)

Lights at night: As per 91.209 on aircraft lighting the requirements for needing lights on is anytime from sunset to sunrise.

How does that look? Am I missing anything or could the FARs I linked be more clearly defined? How do you teach these confusing regulations to students? Thanks in advance fellas.
Click to expand...
I think you are technically correct, but making it even more complicated than even the FAA does.

Currency for carrying passengers at night is what "night currency" is. I'm not sure why you want to create two separate categories for the exact same thing.

Logging night landings. Your point is correct. Except maybe for the required night landings for the private and commercial certificates under 61.109 and 61.129, there is no FAR reason for logging a night landing that is not for the purpose of night landing currency.

I think teaching it is simple - night currency is about the safety of passengers and the time frame the FAA has set for that is based on its assessment of when it is too dark to land safely without some recent experience. The requirements for night currency and the definition for logging night landings for currency are the same. There is a minor exception in the training environment but, other than that, there's no need to complicate it further.

OTOH, the regs on lights at night are based on seeing and being seen and, if you've ever driven a car at dawn and dusk, it's pretty easy to see what that reg doesn't wait until it's really dark outside.
 
I'm gonna go off on a a bit of a hijack here, but I think it does fit this thread.

How many of you teach no landing light landings at night? I was taught that way back in private and always like to do a couple when I get the chance at night. The only problem is that these landings are typically a little rougher and I'm not sure how much my students have gotten out of them in the past. Reading this thread reminded me I needed to do a little research. I'm kicking around the idea of omitting this from my syllabus.
 
You should teach them. Even if they are alittle rough if will give the students peace of mind the first time they have to make a night landing with a burn out landing light after they get their certificate. I don't really see a big difference myself though. There have been numerous times I just forgot to switch on when coming in to land at night and didnt notice till I landed and needed it for taxi.
 
BrewMaster said:
I'm gonna go off on a a bit of a hijack here, but I think it does fit this thread.

How many of you teach no landing light landings at night? .
Click to expand...
With every student. How about no landing light at night with the airspeed indicator covered over. I do that too.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
With every student. How about no landing light at night with the airspeed indicator covered over. I do that too.
Click to expand...

I was particularly evil - I always simulated a complete electrical failure at night with students, usually as their last required night landing. No landing light, no cabin lights of any kind, no instrument panel lights, no flaps (Cessna), etc...all on a moonless night, if possible. I did let them use the PCL on dim, but always talked about "what if you couldn't light the lights yourself?" Great confidence builder!
 
AirmetTango said:
but always talked about "what if you couldn't light the lights yourself?"
Click to expand...

sincerely,

stephen-stucker.jpg
 
AirmetTango said:
I was particularly evil - I always simulated a complete electrical failure at night with students
Click to expand...

I love that one, but I save that for the commercial applicants on a x-c, >50 nm out. muhahahahaha!

----
Brewmaster - I get some rough ones, but I have found that a lot of the night, no landing lights turn out really smooth. They keep a little power in a hold it off like they should. Maybe I've just been lucky with students or you unlucky. One way or the other. :D
 
AirmetTango said:
I was particularly evil - I always simulated a complete electrical failure at night with students, usually as their last required night landing. No landing light, no cabin lights of any kind, no instrument panel lights, no flaps (Cessna), etc...all on a moonless night, if possible. I did let them use the PCL on dim, but always talked about "what if you couldn't light the lights yourself?" Great confidence builder!
Click to expand...

How about holding under the hood, prior to an approach, partial panel with nothing by a turn coordinator, altimeter, tachometer, ADF, and hobbs meter? Everything else covered up. Oh, and by flashlight too.
 
MikeD said:
How about holding under the hood, prior to an approach, partial panel with nothing by a turn coordinator, altimeter, tachometer, ADF, and hobbs meter? Everything else covered up. Oh, and by flashlight too.
Click to expand...

Uber-evil flight instructor says, "Cover zee hobbs meter!"

bruno-1.jpg


(I really have no idea why I made this gay, nor German for that fact.....just go with it.)
 
Thanks for all the replies fellas. Midlife: Ya I was thinking the same thing when I typed it, that makes more sense that way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top