Night hours and my app.

Whatusername

Well THIS is awkward!
Hey gang I have a dumb question that needs a dumb answer. Right now I’m starting to apply to some 121 carriers. My big question is how do I list out my night hours. Right now I’m at 68.4 hours but I know that there’s a provision with the R-ATP that will give you a credit of up to 25 hours for each night landing. Adding the 25 hour credit that puts me at 93.4 hours. Do I list the 68.4 hours on my app/resume or the 93.4?

Or am I overthinking this way too much?
 
Hey gang I have a dumb question that needs a dumb answer. Right now I’m starting to apply to some 121 carriers. My big question is how do I list out my night hours. Right now I’m at 68.4 hours but I know that there’s a provision with the R-ATP that will give you a credit of up to 25 hours for each night landing. Adding the 25 hour credit that puts me at 93.4 hours. Do I list the 68.4 hours on my app/resume or the 93.4?

Or am I overthinking this way too much?
List the amount of night hours you actually have.
 
Hey gang I have a dumb question that needs a dumb answer. Right now I’m starting to apply to some 121 carriers. My big question is how do I list out my night hours. Right now I’m at 68.4 hours but I know that there’s a provision with the R-ATP that will give you a credit of up to 25 hours for each night landing. Adding the 25 hour credit that puts me at 93.4 hours. Do I list the 68.4 hours on my app/resume or the 93.4?

Or am I overthinking this way too much?

Are you applying for an ATP or for a job?

That should answer your question
 
Honestly, applying and interviewing are probably the most stressful parts of your entire aviation career.

I can see where applying would be rough. I tend to overthink a lot of things so I get that.

For interviews I think I have that fairly locked down. I got a aviation interview account the other day. And one of my brothers used to be in HR. So I’ll be pestering him when a regional wants to talk to me.
 
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All flight time is night if you have your eyes closed
I prefer to just write in whatever I think the airline wants to see. Then if they interview me that's what I put in my logbook.

Seriously though, never worry about asking the questions, whether it be about applying, interviewing, or airline life in general. I've thrown some really bizarre ones out on here. Sometimes you'll get razzed for it, but just have a little thick skin because people are just trying to be funny, unlike some other places where they really are being genuinely mean. Once the questions get to a certain complexity level (usually regarding contracts and things like that) and you know enough about where people work, PM becomes an excellent medium.
 
Thanks for the help! This whole applying for a regional thing does get easier right?
Honestly, applying and interviewing are probably the most stressful parts of your entire aviation career.

What he said. I'll add that when you get hired begin immediately preparing for the next rung. Keep meticulous track of your hours, training event dates, new addresses, speeding tickets, etc. Start looking now at what bigger airlines are looking for from applicants and prepare yourself for that (union work, volunteering, degree, etc.). Start thinking about letters of recommendation now and network. For next rung airlines that use airline apps, apply and update monthly when you meet their minimums. For other airlines with hiring windows, apply each time. It doesn't matter if you don't "feel" qualified. Routine demonstrated interest helps. Cast a wide net for that next job. If you treat getting hired at the next carrier/ destination carrier like another full-time job you'll be well ahead of your peers.
 
What he said. I'll add that when you get hired begin immediately preparing for the next rung. Keep meticulous track of your hours, training event dates, new addresses, speeding tickets, etc. Start looking now at what bigger airlines are looking for from applicants and prepare yourself for that (union work, volunteering, degree, etc.). Start thinking about letters of recommendation now and network. For next rung airlines that use airline apps, apply and update monthly when you meet their minimums. For other airlines with hiring windows, apply each time. It doesn't matter if you don't "feel" qualified. Routine demonstrated interest helps. Cast a wide net for that next job. If you treat getting hired at the next carrier/ destination carrier like another full-time job you'll be well ahead of your peers.
Absolutely. I have a couple people around me (non-military) that are trying to slide past regionals straight to a major/LCC. That is all well and good, but they have a fairly lax perspective on grooming their apps, networking, etc. That ain't gonna answer the mail. I think I have one of them whipped into shape, and I hope it rubs off on the others.

That said, I enjoy looking at apps and resumes, and have a lot of people around me who have run the race. I am happy to help anybody work on the next level. Lord knows I had plenty of help getting pulled up out of the primordial muck.
 
If you’re having to count everything right of the decimal point to the *nth degree* and take every advantage of *provisions* in a FAR, then you’re probably not really qualified to apply to the 121 carrier.

Devil’s advocate…If I were the interviewer and saw you had logged 5 hrs of night because you had 1 hr of actual night and had done 4 landings within the hour, I would question everything else in your logbook. *Technically* I guess you could *legally* log it as such based on what you wrote, but realistically you really only had 1 hr of night flying. Just seems you’d be exaggerating your actual experience level.
 
If you’re having to count everything right of the decimal point to the *nth degree* and take every advantage of *provisions* in a FAR, then you’re probably not really qualified to apply to the 121 carrier.

Devil’s advocate…If I were the interviewer and saw you had logged 5 hrs of night because you had 1 hr of actual night and had done 4 landings within the hour, I would question everything else in your logbook. *Technically* I guess you could *legally* log it as such based on what you wrote, but realistically you really only had 1 hr of night flying. Just seems you’d be exaggerating your actual experience level.
This applies directly to the whole logging PIC time thing. Is it PIC for a certificate/rating or PIC for a job application at a 121 carrier. Those are two different things.
 
Hey gang I have a dumb question that needs a dumb answer. Right now I’m starting to apply to some 121 carriers. My big question is how do I list out my night hours. Right now I’m at 68.4 hours but I know that there’s a provision with the R-ATP that will give you a credit of up to 25 hours for each night landing. Adding the 25 hour credit that puts me at 93.4 hours. Do I list the 68.4 hours on my app/resume or the 93.4?

Or am I overthinking this way too much?

Thays for the ATP cert hours. Not actual night time for a regional.
 
If you’re having to count everything right of the decimal point to the *nth degree* and take every advantage of *provisions* in a FAR, then you’re probably not really qualified to apply to the 121 carrier.

Devil’s advocate…If I were the interviewer and saw you had logged 5 hrs of night because you had 1 hr of actual night and had done 4 landings within the hour, I would question everything else in your logbook. *Technically* I guess you could *legally* log it as such based on what you wrote, but realistically you really only had 1 hr of night flying. Just seems you’d be exaggerating your actual experience level.

I would respectfully disagree - many apply, and get hired with the absolute bare bones minimums (at regionals) to the tenth of an hour for the more obscure requirements and using the qualifiers written in the FAR for night bounces, ME time, Sim time, etc....it looks as if this will continue as well.

Personally I was very close to a minimum, which was exceeded by only a few hours.

To the OP, it depends on the the application/company format. Some will ask if you're applying for a restricted ATP or not. If for a restricted ATP I would put down what you have without the additional qualifiers. Expect to be asked in later more specific hour forms and/or during the interview about applying exceptions.
 
Absolutely. I have a couple people around me (non-military) that are trying to slide past regionals straight to a major/LCC. That is all well and good, but they have a fairly lax perspective on grooming their apps, networking, etc. That ain't gonna answer the mail. I think I have one of them whipped into shape, and I hope it rubs off on the others.

That said, I enjoy looking at apps and resumes, and have a lot of people around me who have run the race. I am happy to help anybody work on the next level. Lord knows I had plenty of help getting pulled up out of the primordial muck.
When a Regional CA, I had a lot of retired Mil guys as my FO, that took a promotion (LtC or Col) to a desk job, didn't fly for 3-5 years and need the currency. F16, C17, U2,c130, Harrier...all inquired about their resume from a perspective of non-military pilot. All were gone within the year to a major. Super cool guys that were just trying to stack their odds.

....on a semi unrelated note, the one F15 guy was less than ecstatic that he wasn't "in charge" and was a Pain in the Ass to fly with...I left before them...
 
And even after getting hired at the destination airline, still keep your logbook up to date even though you don’t intend to leave as circumstances out of your control (looking at last year) may mean you have to go looking again.

...on a semi unrelated note, the one F15 guy was less than ecstatic that he wasn't "in charge" and was a Pain in the Ass to fly with...I left before them...

aw sh*t that F15 guy ended up at yellow where he’s pissing off FOs left and right all of the time and all of the newhire reserve FOs end up flying with him because he’s ended up on every FO’s no fly list.
 
If you’re having to count everything right of the decimal point to the *nth degree* and take every advantage of *provisions* in a FAR, then you’re probably not really qualified to apply to the 121 carrier.
Disagree emphatically, if for no other reason than the industry has been Hoovering up anyone with a pulse and the experience for the last few years. That is to say, this isn’t new. Though I’d be inclined to simply keep it, er, simple, and say “do you have 1500 of this, so and so of that, and we’ll get to the ’except’ if we have to, not as a default.” Mostly because I am administratively lazy.

Qualified under the regulations is qualified; if the regulation is where your beef is, then you need to write to 800 Independence Avenue SW, not the applicant.
 
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