Night flying as a student/private pilot

[Scandinavian13]

It's a good idea to have instrument rating. Even as a commercial pilot, according to the regulations, one is not allowed to fly passengers at night past 50 Nm without instrument rating.

From what I understand, that's only a requirement when one is operating in a for hire capacity, as a commercial pilot without an instrument rating. Private pilots do not have this restriction.

I've been a fan of night flying since my private pilot training days. The air is usually more stable, traffic tends to be lighter, and I tend to have an easier time spotting other aircraft.

Flying in the greater Balt-Wash metro area with other large cities slightly west, lighting doesn't tend to be a problem.

Yeah, and Potomac actually pays attention to you.

 

[germb747]

I've said it before I'll say it again. Non-instrument rated/proficient pilots have no business flying at night.

:yeahthat:

Even if the visibility is "unlimited", for all practical purposes you're on an instrument flight if you happen to be in a sparsely populated area. Roads, etc., can give you a false horizon and really mess with your orientation. If you're over water, you can't always tell what's in the sky (stars) and what's in the water (boats). You must rely on instruments! And since you can't see much of the terrain on a dark night, you may as well abide by IFR altitudes and procedures. Otherwise, you're playing the "old pilots/bold pilots" game with yourself.

Baloney.

The FAA says I can fly at night without an instrument rating, so I'm going to do it.

I've got about 300 hours, and about 100 of those are at night. If it's a VFR night, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that I can't be up there.

I can see and avoid just fine, thank you very much.

With your massive 300 hours, (100 at night), you have just enough experience to be dangerous. Go out and scare yourself once or twice, and maybe you'll change your attitude.

The FAA allows you to do lots of things that probably aren't the brightest ideas, assuming you possess the judgment to respect your own sensible limits. Isn't it great we live in a free country where the government allows you (and your insurance company :buck: ) to decide what risks to take and which risks you won't take? Flying at night without special qualification isn't legal everywhere, and for good reason. Start charging people for your services and see if the FAA takes the same approach--for some reason the FAA considers flying VFR at night (>50nm) w/o an instrument ticket unsafe if you're passengers have paid you, but by all means it's perfectly safe if you're flying people for free!

The state of Texas also says it's okay to ride motorcycles without a helmet--don't depend on Uncle Sam to always keep you safe. Sometime we have to make our own (more restrictive) rules! And get your instrument ticket--regardless of how you feel about the issue, getting IFR rated will make you a better pilot.

 

[Scandinavian13]

With your massive 300 hours, (100 at night), you have just enough experience to be dangerous. Go out and scare yourself once or twice, and maybe you'll change your attitude.

The FAA allows you to do lots of things that probably aren't the brightest ideas, assuming you possess the judgment to respect your own sensible limits. Isn't it great we live in a free country where the government allows you (and your insurance company :buck: ) to decide what risks to take and which risks you won't take? Flying at night without special qualification isn't legal everywhere, and for good reason. Start charging people for your services and see if the FAA takes the same approach--for some reason the FAA considers flying VFR at night (>50nm) w/o an instrument ticket unsafe if you're passengers have paid you, but by all means it's perfectly safe if you're flying people for free!

The state of Texas also says it's okay to ride motorcycles without a helmet--don't depend on Uncle Sam to always keep you safe. Sometime we have to make our own (more restrictive) rules! And get your instrument ticket--regardless of how you feel about the issue, getting IFR rated will make you a better pilot.

Although I don't specifically agree 100% with the idea that those without the instrument rating shouldn't be flying at night, I do agree that those who don't have the rating should take more precautions and be safer.

According to statistics, 50-350 hours is the most dangerous time in a pilot's flight time. In that time, specifically, approximately 22% of all fatal accidents were attributed to night flight.

I don't think that's a reason for non-instrument-rated pilots to be restricted from flying at night, but I do think that's a very good reason to make sure you are being safer at night. As a part of that, previous simulated instrument time is a must (yes, I do understand actual is much better, but you're not going to get that from your private training - hopefully). At least with sim inst time, accompanied by the theory from ground school regarding inner-ear to brain miscues, one can potentially avoid a bad situation. Whether or not this turns out to be practically true is another question. If one feels capable, and is being honest with oneself, then by all means, go ahead.

 

[tpaRob]

You mean you need more that the 3 hours of instrument time you get in the PPL training? (kidding) I am 20 hours into my PPL training. I did 30 minutes of night ops and felt pretty comfortable. I don't think I want to go mountain flying on a moonless night anytime soon. I go up for another hour of night/instrument flying Wednesday.

 

[tonyw]

Isn't it great we live in a free country where the government allows you (and your insurance company :buck: ) to decide what risks to take and which risks you won't take?

Insurance companies are in business to make money.

If it was a money loser for them to insure folks like me, who fly at night without an instrument rating, then would they do it?

Nope.

They've got more of a vested interest in seeing that metal doesn't get bent than anyone other than the pilot and his passengers. They've got skin in the game.

And they insure me.

It's not like I say, yeah, let me blow off the preflight, and who cares if one of my lights is out, and I don't need the landing light unless I'm operating for hire so who needs that?

I take reasonable precautions and then I go and do what the FAA AND my insurance company let me do.

I go fly at night.

You can shake your head all you want, and say I'm going to kill myself, and say I have no business flying at night, but until the rules change, I'm going to do it.

 

[MikeOH58]

Even as a commercial pilot, according to the regulations, one is not allowed to fly passengers at night past 50 Nm without instrument rating.

Commercial Pilots without an instrument rating are prohibited from flying passengers for compensation or hire at night. Daytime the flight is restricted to 50NM's.

 

[Gumps]

"If the engine quits wait until you get down to 200ft. then switch on the landing light. If you like what you see, land. If you don't like what you see, turn the light off."- Dan S. (old instructor.)

How many of the pro-vfr night crowd would fly over open water in a single? (like lake Michigan or the ocean) Aerobatics with out a parachute? Scud running in class G?

There's lots of stuff that you can do, but might be safer if you didn't. I think attitudes change after a few years and volumes of NTSB reports read. Night VFR in a single? I use to, but probably won't anymore. Why not? I can't think of a good enough reason to take the risk, no matter how small.

"Stupid is as Stupid does."- Forest Gump.

 

[P&H]

Baloney.

The FAA says I can fly at night without an instrument rating, so I'm going to do it.

The FARs and changes to the FARs were the result of, and written in, blood.

Countless non-instrument rated private pilots have died because of their night flying habits. Ever flown over the desert on a clear moonless night? You might as well be in the clouds. Or, in the aforementioned example by "Gumps", flying over Lake Michigan at night. I've flown abeam the lake at night several times, and you can't see a thing.

Flying on a clear night over a densely populated city is a little different. But the regs allow you to fly over the desert and over large bodies of water at night time without an instrument rating. Those conditions call for precise instrument flying.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

I'll admit - I'm pretty scared of flying around at night. It's quite simply beyond my personal minimums.

 

[ready2fly]

I absolutely love flying at night. Love it.

I'm on my toes more - yes - but I dig it.

 

[tonyw]

I'll admit - I'm pretty scared of flying around at night. It's quite simply beyond my personal minimums.

You know, that's what amazes me. People act as if flying at night is something you should be scared of.

Give me a break.

Take appropriate precautions, and go ahead and fly.

And for those insinuating that flying without an instrument rating at night is stupid, what I think is stupid is not enjoying the things you can only see at night. That's stupid. Letting an irrational fear stop you from enjoying those is stupid.

You can get a commercial without an instrument rating. And what's one of the requirements for a commercial?

A 100 NM flight of two hours AT NIGHT under VFR conditions.

Guess the people getting that done are reckless and crazy, huh?

 

[Matt13C]

You know, that's what amazes me. People act as if flying at night is something you should be scared of.

Give me a break.

Take appropriate precautions, and go ahead and fly.

And for those insinuating that flying without an instrument rating at night is stupid, what I think is stupid is not enjoying the things you can only see at night. That's stupid. Letting an irrational fear stop you from enjoying those is stupid.

You can get a commercial without an instrument rating. And what's one of the requirements for a commercial?

A 100 NM flight of two hours AT NIGHT under VFR conditions.

Guess the people getting that done are reckless and crazy, huh?

I don't think there is anything stupid about it. Everyone has a level of risk that is acceptable. Yours is simply higher than theirs, that is all. It is no different than a person who will and a person who will not drive a car down a drag strip or one who will and one who will not go sky diving. None of the people are stupid, they all just have different levels of risk.

Personally, I think what makes a person a professional pilot is not a certificate but a mindset. Knowing your limitations and sticking to them is the attitude all should have when in the sky.

There are many things the FAA requires you to do in order to get a certificate and personally I think most of them make little sense. Take for instance 3 hours of instrument training for a Private Pilots Certificate. The point of a PPL is you can only fly VFR, giving someone the false sense that they can handle IFR "if needed" when they clearly will not be able to makes no sense in my mind. A person who is competent will stay certain distances away from clouds, not fly when it is MVFR and diminishing and monitor the temp/dewpoint spread to make sure they won't be caught in a sudden fog.

 

[Scandinavian13]

I agree with the arguments that there's no reason for restrictions to be placed on non-instrument-rated pilot regarding night flight, provided those pilots are realistic enough to understand and realise the dangers and properly plan for them.

The point below is very true and should be taken into account. Without an instrument training, or feeling comfortable relying completely on instruments, one should not be anywhere where the ground cannot be accurately referenced.

The FARs and changes to the FARs were the result of, and written in, blood.

Countless non-instrument rated private pilots have died because of their night flying habits. Ever flown over the desert on a clear moonless night? You might as well be in the clouds. Or, in the aforementioned example by "Gumps", flying over Lake Michigan at night. I've flown abeam the lake at night several times, and you can't see a thing.

Flying on a clear night over a densely populated city is a little different. But the regs allow you to fly over the desert and over large bodies of water at night time without an instrument rating. Those conditions call for precise instrument flying.

 

[tonyw]

The point below is very true and should be taken into account. Without an instrument training, or feeling comfortable relying completely on instruments, one should not be anywhere where the ground cannot be accurately referenced.

And that's a reasonable attitude.

What steams me is the if you don't have an instrument rating, you shouldn't be flying at night attitude.

That's ridiculous.

Then there's the equating flying at night without an instrument ticket to scud running attitude, which is absurd as well.

People who say things like that make me want to go on up and fly at night just to piss them off.

Safely, of course. But just knowing that if I was flying at night in clear and a million conditions, they would still get mad makes me want to do it more.

One of my most fun flights at night was to get that 100 NM and two hour flight in VFR conditions. I flew from GAI down to FCI. I flew through IAD's airspace, and got vectored all over the place, through the landing traffic. Then I got treated to flying at night with snow flurries. I turned on my landing light and it was like I was entering hyperspace in the Millennium Falcon or something. And when I flew back through IAD, I got vectored around and could have set up for a downwind for one of the runways. I told ATC this and they said, if you want to, you can.

That is something you can't do during the day!

That was cool. You can call me reckless if you want, but that was fun.

 

[PWK_Pilot]

I started flying at night about 6 months after I got my PPL.
It was a little nerve wracking at first but I loved the smoother air[especially in the summer]and less traffic.
It really helps if you know the area you fly around very well and you know your landmarks well- highways and other well lit roads will be of good use to you if you have an engine failure[less traffic]
If you use a dual GPS430[like I do] set the top one to the #1 nav page[or nrst VOR's] and the bottom one to the nrst apt page- that will be a + for your SA. I rarely use the moving map[low vis/confusion/emerg etc..] ALWAYS keep a finger on your sectional/terminal chart and know where you are at ALL times! NEVER get complacent up there- especialy with pax aboard- you can get caught up in talking/being more excited than usual which can cause some pilot's to get a little disoriented.
Play mind games with yourself" what town is that in the distance",what apt is that", "what VOR's are nearby" etc.....
Recently, a friend of mine who was with me on a x/c to MSN at night wanted to see how good I really was. I kept the dual GPS on the #1 nav page and dimmed them and only used the sectional chart the whole way to navigate- it worked flawlessly and my friend was very impressed!
It really feels great inside[lol and it takes me HOURS to wind down from the excitement of the flight] to know that you are getting more proficent flying at night. HAVE FUN UP THERE!!

 

[ASpilot2be]

I just did my first night flight last night, and it was freaking sweet:rawk:

 

[skidz]

You know, that's what amazes me. People act as if flying at night is something you should be scared of.

I don't think anyone said night flying is scary or stupid. They are just saying that people should just be more careful especially if they are not instrument rated.

 

[NotCoolEnufToFly]

Well I'm still only a student ( my goal is only to get my PPL before I die. lol) but when I did my first day landing I was scared as crap because I was so used to flying at dusk and night. I like night flying a lot more.

 

[tonyw]

I don't think anyone said night flying is scary or stupid. They are just saying that people should just be more careful especially if they are not instrument rated.

When someone closes by saying "stupid is as stupid does" it is pretty clear what he's saying.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

Interesting discussion going on here. Let me add my two cents to the fray.

To quote Kevin Bacon, “These are the facts of the case, and they are undisputed:”

1. Flying at night comes with an increase in risk (mainly due to spatial disorientation and illusions due to lack of visual clues) and limits options in the event of a forced landing.
2. A CAVU night can turn into de facto IMC if you fly away from visual contact with lights on the ground.
3. Night IMC is the deadliest environment we encounter as pilots.

I think this is why the FAA mandates that pilots hold an IR to fly paying passengers at night. The FAA has always provided a higher margin of safety for a paying passenger than for a pilot. Hopefully everyone agrees that the addition of an IR makes a pilot safer than a non-IR pilot.

An excellent case study for this discussion is the JFK Jr. accident: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X19354&key=1
John was a proficient and current Private pilot. He had flown 175 hrs in the previous year and had 310 hrs TT. He had logged 38 hrs of instrument training, but had yet to complete his instrument rating. He was flying a cross-country route that was familiar to him (he had flown it 35 times), and had planned to conduct the flight during daylight, yet on July 16, 1999 he found himself on a night flight with the sky clear and 4-10 miles of visibility along his entire route of flight. Although the in-flight conditions were textbook VMC, a non-IR pilot found himself in de facto instrument conditions when his planned route of flight took him beyond visual range of any ground reference. PIREPs reported no visible horizon in the area John ventured into. While nearing his destination, John left the safety of the Connecticut coastline (and all contact with the horizon) and crossed a 30-mile stretch of open water as the most direct route to his destination. John apparently turned off his auto pilot and started his descent into Martha’s Vineyard. While descending in this void, he allowed the airplane to drift off heading. An attempt to correct his heading lead to a series of climbing and descending turns, most likely caused by pilot induced oscillations as vertigo lead to spatial disorientation. The induced aircraft movement apparently provided more vestibular stimulation than he could overcome without a visible horizon; culminating in a vertical descent in excess of 4,700 FPM, the airplane striking the water in a nose-down attitude killing all three aboard only 7 miles from the approaching shore and the safety of the horizon that was visible there.

Personally, I love flying at night. A night pleasure flight is one of my favorite things to do. My local area looks very different at night and the landscape has a diverse beauty that is only apparent at night. I have also done a lot of night cross-country flying. When I had 300 hrs total time I didn’t see anything wrong with flying a VFR night cross-country over the Appalachian Mountains in a single-engine airplane. It was legal, I was proficient and I had flown the route from Ohio to NC regularly. With the benefit of more experience as my guide, I’ve decided that combination is one too many risks for minimal gain. I now will either fly cross-country over the mountains during the day, or fly cross-country at night, but not both. I also make it a policy to fly night cross-countries on an instrument flight plan because it makes me more prepared to face a loss of visual contact with the ground and enlists other resources to help me perform my duties as PIC.

I don’t intend to discourage anyone who flies night VFR cross-country from doing so, nor do I intend to encourage pilots who don’t. I only intend to raise awareness of the issues facing a pilot at night because those dangers can be insidious for the unprepared and mistakes lead to fatalities in night VMC twice as often, and six times as often in night IMC when compared to day VMC.

We can’t dismiss these risks by reliance on what is legal or by what someone else can do. We all have a responsibility to assess the risks of our activities as pilots and determine if those risks are manageable. What one pilot can manage has no bearing on what I can manage, and vice versa.

I do not agree with everyone’s position on this topic but I do find it interesting to read the reasons everyone has stated for their positions. Some arguments are base on facts, some on spite, and some are based on unstated reasons; but all are of interest to me.

For me, the risks of night cross-countries are mitigated by not flying over terrain I classify as “hostile” and by conducting it on an instrument flight plan. For some, my personal minima are not enough mitigate the risk; for others they are too restrictive. But for me, the aircraft I fly, and my level of experience it is appropriate. I would be interested to hear what others’ personal minima are for night VMC cross-country flight.

Blue skies,
Rob

BTW, Scandinavian13 and I must have read the same book! For those who haven’t read it, I highly recommend Dr. Craig’s The Killing Zone. The life you save just might be your own.