Newbie Instructor Question

Ian_J

Ian_J

Hubschrauber Flieger
Staff member
Although I've flown in gusty winds plenty... my students have not. Got two guys today... both post solo, one of em about to take his practical soon. Today the winds are supposed to be 25016G25. This honestly happens to be the very first time I've encountered pretty good winds since I started instructing, so I was just wondering if any of you instructors out there have certain wind limits where you won't fly students.

My own opinion - I think 16G25 is good training and it will teach the guys a lot about wind/ gusts/ and x-wind landings. Just want to see if I'm with the norm...
 
What why I would do/have done is make up my mind as to whether to go or not, in this situation i would go, and then ask them and have them make the decision. I would much rather have their first time flying with those winds with me rather then them on their own 2 weeks after getting their PPL flying with their friends.
 
I go by crosswind component. If they are at the stage your guys are at, I just use the maximum crosswind component of the plane (17 knots for the cherokee). If it is over that, I stay on the ground. I know its not a legal limitation, but I think it teaches students not to push the envelope too much...setting a good example.
 
Like KBUF I would also go by the crosswind component. You sound comfortable in wind so the only way they will become comfortable is to fly in it. You will see teaching in upstate NY that you will have extended periods of time with gusty winds. In particular the fall, and spring. I remember countless times having winds gusting in the 20's for weeks at a time. Another thing I used to like to do is look at the objective of the lesson. Could I really teach my student what was needed givin the weather conditions. I believe you mentioned one of your students was close to practical, maybe take him up and review ground refs, and X-wind landings. But if it was a 141 student, who flies regularly, and was up for his first XC I might wait for another day. The workload is high enough on the first dual XC then to try and fight the wind doesn't help matters. I might opt to do ground. If it were a second dual then wind wouldnt be so much of a factor. Ok I'm rambling on here, just my opinion. Good luck.
 
As mentioned above my instructor goes with Crosswind component/factor. Right now he has my limitation at 10kt crosswind component. Seems to be what he's done during his whole life instructing.
 
If they're in the latter stages of training, yeah, I'd say it would be a good experience to stretch their skills, and see how a good brisk x-wind needs to be delt with. (Within the xwind limits of the plane of course)

With my students, one of my big concerns is to prevent them from "beating thei head against the wall" trying to cope with conditions that are beyond their skillset at the time. I also feel that if they don't have a good baseline of experience to differentiate between 'normal" and 'not normal" in terms of a/c control, then you're just wasting their money frustrating them with conditions they don't yet understand how to cope with. What that means is that, on a windy day like you mentioned, the student who is *just* beginning to grasp light-wind landings is going to be better off if I take him out in the practice area for maneuvers, rather than trying to deal with gusty pattern work. IMHO, at least. :)

The more advanced students, once their confidence is up, and they're consistantly nailing landings w/o any yoke touches from me, I'm more than happy to throw out into a gusty day (with me along), just so they can continue to build their skillset and confidence in their ability to handle the a/c.


-A-
 
Thanks all... good stuff.

As it turned out, the weather guessers were dead wrong and the winds turned out to be 25 G 39. Screw that. Did ground instead.
 
I had this problem alot last spring. Very windy in Colorado last year... Anyway, I think it is good to get some experience in gusty winds for the most part I have found that it is a waste of their money and time. It is good for them to see it once and experience it but anything over about 12-15 kts of direct crosswind is a waste of time once they have seen it at least once. Usually windy on the surface means bumpy in the air.

I guess the way you can look at it is, if this were my money would I want to go up and practice for my checkride in this windy/bumpy weather? Also my rule is when its over 25kts I am not going. If the x/winds are over 15 Im not going, always remember things can get worse, if it is already close to your limit when you leave, what happens when it gets worse than that? You may be stuck in the air for a while wasting more of your student's money and time.

Remember to keep it fun too, but always think Safety first!
 
During my ppl training we had to do a lot of crosswind work. He put a limitation on me of 15kts, but on my first solo x-country I got back to 17-18kts. range. It was a perfect day to land on the dirt runway. :)

I feel pretty comfortable in a x-wind though...if it's only gusting up to 20-22 and not a direct x-wind I'll go up, I have three other airports pretty close I can go to if it's too bad out at Skywest, so I have plenty of options.

What's really fun is if it's right down the runway and you can stop it in 100 feet.:nana2:




Edit: ALSO, had a time when I was with the instructor and I decided it was just too rough to justify it. I would have just gotten beaten to a pulp and he agreed so we did some ground stuff. Even the pipeline pilots were joking about putting on their spurs before taking off in that.
 
aviatorrbt said:
16G25 is really high. a 25 knot gust has the potential to flip even the most weathered pilot.
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This is right. When I was still doing my training for my private, which was less than a year ago, I was with my instructor in some high winds, 15+ sustained, with gusts well into the 20's. I was lined up to land on the runway, and a wind gust knocked the airplane completely out of line, to where I was now lined up with the grass/taxi-ways on the side of the runway. Not to mention, an unusual attitude the wind puts the plane in. This was much later in my training, only a couple weeks from my checkride, but it was a true experience. I had never flown in that kind of wind, before then. For someone with little flight time, new to flying, even with an instructor, they may become uneasy flying in that wind, especially when they are being knocked around trying to land.
 
This depends on whether your student is going to be a professional or not. While 25kts. is a handful for a light airplane, any would be pro should be able to handle this. Once you get to the big leagues you're gonna be flying unless it's gusting 40-50kts. This is just the reality of it. When I used to instruct, 35kts. would have been my cutoff. 15-25 is really nothing and that's not pilot bravado.
 
cezzna said:
While 25kts. is a handful for a light airplane, any would be pro should be able to handle this. Once you get to the big leagues you're gonna be flying unless it's gusting 40-50kts.
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...in a much larger airplane that has probably been tested for those winds.

I did a 172 checkout with a retired airline pilot. Something like 20K hours. Still could fly a 172 better than me. We came back from the practice area to a strong crosswind. "You may have to help me with this one. It's been a long time since I've had to land something so light in a crosswind."

Maybe a "would be" pro "should" be able to handle the test pilot category 25 Kt crosswind in a 172, but seems to me that this guy was what a "real" pro sounds like.
 
Depends on what you are accustomed to. If the area you fly in is calm most of the time and high winds are rare it may be wise to be cautious. The amount of crosswind and the skill level of the student also play a big role. Some will benefit from the training in high winds, while other may get tight and not get anything useful from it.

I am a believer that you need to experience as many different scenarios as possible and learn your limits and also the limits of the airplane. That kind of information is invaluable in a real world scenario that may come up later in the pilots flying experience.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
...in a much larger airplane that has probably been tested for those winds.

I did a 172 checkout with a retired airline pilot. Something like 20K hours. Still could fly a 172 better than me. We came back from the practice area to a strong crosswind. "You may have to help me with this one. It's been a long time since I've had to land something so light in a crosswind."

Maybe a "would be" pro "should" be able to handle the test pilot category 25 Kt crosswind in a 172, but seems to me that this guy was what a "real" pro sounds like.
Click to expand...

some peoples definition of pro vary, but this guy sounds like one to me.
 
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