Could mean getting shot at.
But insofar as icing, VFR in IMC, and any number of things that can qualify as "difficult operational experience", many mil folks have BTDT many times over. Read any of the number of stories I've posted here.
New Safety Bill effect on mil dudes...
- Thread starter mhcasey
- Start date
Could mean getting shot at.
But insofar as icing, VFR in IMC, and any number of things that can qualify as "difficult operational experience", many mil folks have BTDT many times over. Read any of the number of stories I've posted here.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Is it just fighter/attack/bomber guys that go UAV's? I can't see a C-5 driver having any pertinent experience other than aircraft navigation.
As far as tactical employment of UAV's wouldn't it be better to have an operator who will stay in that system for their career? Granted someone with a fighter/bomber/attack background would have a smaller learning curve but wouldn't a guy with 5 years flying UAV's be much more effective employing the UAV than a F-16 guy who has 4 years fighter time and 1 year UAV time?
Not trying to pick an agruement but I wouldn't call what UAV's does is a three dimentional fight. Everything they are concerned about is on the ground which they look at through fancy optics with the auto-pilot set up in a big level orbit. Very similar to what I did when I was in the front seat of an Apache. Looking outside in that situation was helpful for my SA but the majority of what I had to do was focus the sensors, radios, and weapons... and this was the amost ideal position to look outside at a 1000 feet at 70 kts. Don't really know how it is from a jet's perspective but I can't imagine looking outside from 15000 feet or a low level pass at 400 kts is all that helpful for increasing SA from what your pod is giving you (Again I'm speculating, don't really know). Point is in my humble opinion, is the key to an effective UAV operator is using the sensors and radios to build SA and if need be use a hellfire. These UAV guys you mentioned earlier that need all the supervision sound like mediocre warriors, not aviators.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
It's certainly a 3D fight for the other aircraft that are in the CAS stack with them, and that's exactly the problem -- their marginal ability to play with others without becoming a liability.
Usually the Preds and Reapers are stooging through the airspace without any SA as to what other aircraft are out there or where they are. Everyone else usually has to modify their tactics to work around this big baby huey that is waddling around blissfully unaware that there is an actual war going on outside of their soda-straw view of the world.
I have nearly speared a Predator in the F-15E while trying to conduct a strafe pass. I have also had one fly right through my attack axis with a bomb in flight. It would have been sweet justice to have had the bomb impact the Pred, even if just to make a point.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Do hear ya on that one sir. Its no better down low with us sandwhiched between the Shadows above and the Ravens below.
Unfortunately UAV's are only gonna get worse. The AH-64D block III coming out in a few years will give the co-pilot/gunner level 1-4 controll over a UAV. How the heck do you log that flight time?
You'd get the kill credit! And the Pred silouette under the canopy on the left nose...which would make it all worth it.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
So, he'll be in the Apache, but controlling another UAV helo from that seat?
Wow.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
You'd get the kill credit! And the Pred silouette under the canopy on the left nose...which would make it all worth it.
There's all ready a F-15E pilot out there who had to shoot down an MQ-9 that went lost link. He hit it with an AIM-9 (even though it didn't actually splash the drone, but just took the engine off).
The sad part is that, according to some people I've talked to, he's strutting around talking about having a "kill".
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Well, 1.0 flight = 1.0 CP AND 1.0 PC
fish314
Well-Known Member
Heavy guys go to the global hawk. They do the Recce stuff. I haven't heard that they can go to the Preds or Reapers. I think that is still a fighter only, or maybe fighter/bomber only, kind of thing.
Low_Level_Hell said:
That is kind of similar to one of the arguments I've heard. Basically the idea was that UAVs/UASs/RPAs or whatever the Navy calls 'em, well basically they needed to be considered an MWS. In other words, a system that you would do your whole career in. That way, there would eventually be a weapons school for it, guys with tons of experience in it to teach the younger dudes, Generals who knew its capabilities and could advocate for it or plan missions around it, etc., etc. Basically, this idea was that these things would never be used to their fullest potential unless there was a robust and real community of UAV experts out there, rather than just guys who did one tour and left.
The sad part is that, according to some people I've talked to, he's strutting around talking about having a "kill".
Please tell me you're pulling our chain..........
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Didn't Dos Gringos have a song about shooting down a drone?
fish314
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised you haven't heard of these guys before. They're two F-16 guys (well, maybe they are former F-16 guys... One of the guys was in my SOS class in 2005 and I think he was flying T-6's then, so no idea where they are now). Anyways, they've got two albums out, and they're both Air Force/F-16 aviation related, and hilarious.
Thinking about this now, I didn't review that song before I posted it, but a lot of their stuff has some pretty strong language. I think that one is pretty clean, but there may be the odd bad word in it. Most of the others are a lot worse, so be warned, but they are VERY funny.
Oh, and I just heard a new one on youtube that may be the funniest yet, called "My wife's vibrator." There's a line about "3 gears and an overdrive..." so it's pretty hilarious too.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
In 2005 Trip was an instructor out at Luke in the F-16 and Snooze was a T-38 IFF IP with me at Moody.
fish314
Well-Known Member
Ahh, that's it. It was Snooze, and I knew he was in Moody. I guess I just assumed T-6's cause I forgot they had IFF out there too. Oh, and I had it backwards last post. It was Trip who was out with me at SOS, (but not in my flight, so I didn't really know the guy or anything). Snooze came out one weekend, since its not too terrible a drive from Moody to Maxwell, and they did a little concert in the bar at the o'club.
If you were out at Moody with those guys do you know another F-16 dude named "Crusher?" His wife "Bass" worked with me at Columbus. They came from Moody to CBM shortly after that.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Yup, but I did not know him well. He was in the 49th, I was in the 435th. Snooze was in the 49th, too, but we were both shipped off to OSS jobs at the same time and shared an office (sts).
T'was a great location and a great assignment.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
I'd agree fully with that. Its hard to believe the AF hasn't established something like that years ago. They had to see this is where the future was going concerning UAV's. Guess its a pride/cultural thing and nobody wants to impose UAV's to an AF aviator.
If the AF had some program to allow us Army pilots go directly to an Air Force UAV job I bet there would be 1000+ applicants.
Basically yeah but control can be handed back and forth between a ground station and they handle launch and recovery. Pretty sure its not another helo UAV, more like a Hunter/Shadow type UAV. I spoke to a few guys who tested this out. They said it worked alot better than they expected it to.