New Mexico Phi crash video released

Why would the pilot not abort during the first 5 seconds?

I'm not a helicopter pilot. It did at least a 360 degree level turn before it banked and became visibly unstable. I would guess that any significant yawing on take off would be an immediate abort.
 
MikeD said:
Sure, the AStar fuel tank is nothing more than what you'd probably find on some John Deere farm tractor, and it's sitting right behind the aft bulkhead, and its been a factor in accidents of the AStar when it comes to post-crash survivability;
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And at least one EagleMed crash.


MikeD said:
If you think the AStar is bad, try the Bell 47 / OH-13 Sioux series, and its fuel tank placement....and that's AVGAS (yeah I know......kind of like arguing the difference between getting bombed by a regular High Explosive bomb, or being bombed by a napalm bomb, but am just saying...:) ):

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Old school HEMS :cool:

There DPE I did my CFII with has a 47 and I plan to return to do my ATP in it. FWIW, new ones are being made.

http://scottsbell47.com
 
I'm not going to try any of them, you maniac. Flying freight in totally crashworthy fixed wing aircraft was about as tough as I ever wanted to be, and I was sucking my thumb for most of that. Now, that said, some of the dudes at my Methods base had pretty much every helo t-shirt there was to have, and they STILL avoided the Falling Star like the plague. It's all relative, etc, sure. But when a 50-something year old guy with thousands and thousands of hours of helo time (largely flying pistons off boats and hovering next to freaking powerlines in Alaska) and an A&P says he commutes an extra hour so as to not be flying an A-Star...well, you know. It's not for nothing.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I'm not going to try any of them, you maniac. Flying freight in totally crashworthy fixed wing aircraft was about as tough as I ever wanted to be, and I was sucking my thumb for most of that. Now, that said, some of the dudes at my Methods base had pretty much every helo t-shirt there was to have, and they STILL avoided the Falling Star like the plague. It's all relative, etc, sure. But when a 50-something year old guy with thousands and thousands of hours of helo time (largely flying pistons off boats and hovering next to freaking powerlines in Alaska) and an A&P says he commutes an extra hour so as to not be flying an A-Star...well, you know. It's not for nothing.
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Oh I agree. Given my choice if I were King for a day, I wouldn't choose the AStar for the mission we do here. Just too light, too flimsy, somewhat unstable, and not exceptionally crashworthy. It is cost effective though, and that's always the bottom line, I guess.
 
mat said:
Why would the pilot not abort during the first 5 seconds?

I'm not a helicopter pilot. It did at least a 360 degree level turn before it banked and became visibly unstable. I would guess that any significant yawing on take off would be an immediate abort.
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Not always immediately apparent in the instant it happens and the heat of the moment, coupled with the speed at which it occurred. After the first rotation or so and once immediately convinced that the thing is indeed out of control and not easily recovered, the only thing left to do was reduce collective and attempt to keep it level as much as possible. Even after the first half rotation, if not immediately apparent what the problem is, you are just along for the ride. Only question is how hard of a ride that's going to be.
 
MikeD said:
Not always immediately apparent in the instant it happens and the heat of the moment, coupled with the speed at which it occurred. After the first rotation or so and once immediately convinced that the thing is indeed out of control and not easily recovered, the only thing left to do was reduce collective and attempt to keep it level as much as possible. Even after the first half rotation, if not immediately apparent what the problem is, you are just along for the ride. Only question is how hard of a ride that's going to be.
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And with knowing that you guys can still get a medical is the oxymoron of aviation.
 
Just an aside, and not necessarily related to this accident in any way; the concept of stuck pedal. Oftentimes, the idea of stuck pedal is thought to be something jammed or mechanically stuck in the pedal to tailrotor connections within the airframe. Often, it is something like that. But it can also be something simple and apparent, but not immediately noticed. One problem we had in our B3 AStars that was discovered was a stuck pedal from both a design issue as well as a equipment location issue. On the B3, additional installed items that required circuit breakers, were placed on a panel on the right side wall of the center console, and covered with a clear plexiglass plate screwed into place flush. The design of the pedals incorporates a "lip" which prevents shoes/boots from sliding off the side of the pedals in slick or wet boot conditions. On a few of our birds, wear of the fasteners of the plexiglass place resulted in parts of the plate fore/aft becoming loose. And with the extremely close distance tolerances between the left pilots pedal (next to the right side of the center console) and the wall of the console, there became a potential for a physical stuck pedal issue, which we had and were luckily discovered on the ground. The plexiglass panel has since been reworked to fit more flush with the center console.

In the far bottom picture, is a picture of a B2 AStar without the additional CB panel.

Again, not tying this to any particular accident or even this one in ABQ; just a discussion on the concept of stuck pedals and the different types that can be found.

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mikecweb said:
What the point of a circuit breaker if it's covered by plexiglass??
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Not meant to be accessed in flight, as they're not critical CBs, they're for aftermarket accessories. No different than CBs that are located in a landing gear well or some other inaccessible part of an aircraft. Our air conditioning CBs are in the right side baggage compartment.
 
I still think it was the hydraulic isolation switch and then being surprised at the stiffness of the rudder pedals.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I still think it was the hydraulic isolation switch and then being surprised at the stiffness of the rudder pedals.
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A possibility. However one that should be fairly quickly overcome. The bird can be flown with the isolation switch off, just with more effort on the pilot's part. Plus, it should be noticeable well before it gets to be too in extremis, due to the fact that pedal is being applied to varying degrees from the moment the collective is raised and even before the bird breaks ground. It would be readily apparent if the isolation switch is off.

Technique-wise, where my explanation applies, is where pilots use the technique of slow collective application to where they lift the left skid, onto the right skid, heel of the right skid, then airborne (opposite for U.S. made helicopters). However some pilots use a technique of a more rapid collective input, resulting in a more rapid "break ground" all at once, rather than a nice smooth pickup. That is one situation where one could be taken by surprise by jammed or more pedal force required, and they're already airborne and having to deal with it. But that would have to be a fair number of bad factors coming together at the same time.
 
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That's insane to watch. I had no idea helipads had fire suppression systems. Talk about fuel tanks makes me second guess flying the diamond 20 (fuel behind your head) and flying the diamond 40 (fuel in the wings).

I was all about starting flight training to be a helicopter driver but eventually went the other way. Scared myself I guess after doing some research.

Awesome this didn't end differently.
 
It always baffles me how many fixed wing pilots think helicopters are scary and unsafe. Being rated in both, I feel more comfortable in a helicopter and would much rather have an engine fail in a helicopter than an airplane. It doesn't matter whether you are in a helicopter or airplane, things can go wrong at the drop of a hat.

I think most fixed wing guys have never had the chance to fly in one or really understand how exactly they work. There are thousands of helicopters that fly everyday accident free. Besides, they are worth getting a few hours for the fun factor alone!
 
I flew fairly often with highly experienced pilots in the BKs. Thought it was awesome. But they were the same dudes who wouldn't touch an A-Star with a ten foot pole. *shrug*. I mean, there's lots of stuff I did as a young fixed wing pilot that there's no f'ing way I'd do again. All a matter of perspective, I suppose.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I flew fairly often with highly experienced pilots in the BKs. Thought it was awesome. But they were the same dudes who wouldn't touch an A-Star with a ten foot pole. *shrug*. I mean, there's lots of stuff I did as a young fixed wing pilot that there's no f'ing way I'd do again. All a matter of perspective, I suppose.
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I'm sure that was an awesome experience. Those BK's sure are beautiful machines. I agree with you about the A-star. It doesn't seem to be too high on the list of preferable helicopters by the majority of pilot's out there. It's crashworthiness, or lack there of would be concerning too.
 
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