New info on ATA

I think a lot of pilots • themselves as a means to an end. Not realizing that it looks like crap to an employer when you've got a fat logbook, but none of it was experience that someone paid you to obtain.

Don't do it because it'll eventually flow upstream to the jobs that you're aspiring to get.
 
Hmm, perhaps I should fly the -88 for free as an internship to build experience for a 757/767 seat?
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Some companies will pay you during your intership! I think Monica Lewinsky got $27,000 a year!!! It's not like she did what she did for free!
 
Did you hear Klinton put a help wanted ad in looking for interns? I bet that's going over huge with the dads of the girls who are applying....


Chunk
 
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I think a lot of pilots • themselves as a means to an end. Not realizing that it looks like crap to an employer when you've got a fat logbook, but none of it was experience that someone paid you to obtain.


[/ QUOTE ] Doug, what looks better, time you got working for free or no time at all? I'm sure any aspiring pilot in their right mind would accept payment to fly but if nobody is hiring its either fly for free or not at all. At least its something that could be done while trying to find a paying gig, better than sitting on your ass.
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Hmm, perhaps I should fly the -88 for free as an internship to build experience for a 757/767 seat?

[/ QUOTE ]You're one to talk, you already are an airline pilot. You can accept payment for flying the -88 to build experience for a 757/767 seat because Delta is willing to pay you to do so.

No offense Doug, just don't forget what it was like.
 
Take it easy on Doug! He knows what it was like and he already paid his dues as a CFI and regional pilot. If it wan't for him, you wouldn't have this website to make snide and rude remarks regarding Doug. Think about what you say to people who are providing a way and means for us (aspiring pilots) to learn and share experiences about the industry.
 
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Doug, what looks better, time you got working for free or no time at all? I'm sure any aspiring pilot in their right mind would accept payment to fly but if nobody is hiring its either fly for free or not at all. At least its something that could be done while trying to find a paying gig, better than sitting on your ass.

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That's exactly the rationale behind putting these programs together during the industry lows. Pilots are desperate for flight time. It takes a lot more than flight time to land a job -- it takes experience.

So basically, expecting that you're going to intern or fly for free into qualifying for a regional job when you're competing with people that have real experience is similar to bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Been there, seen that.

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You're one to talk, you already are an airline pilot. You can accept payment for flying the -88 to build experience for a 757/767 seat because Delta is willing to pay you to do so.

No offense Doug, just don't forget what it was like.

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Let me be completely frank with you. I made this website for you guys, not myself. I could have said "I got mine, pull up the rope" years ago and spent my free time dodging rattlesnakes on the mountainbike trails in AZ, but I didn't.

Seriously, I'm here to help you and that doesn't mean I'm going to give you all of the warm, fuzzy answers you want to hear.

I got out of college in the early 1990's where the industry is very similar to today and I've seen more gimmicks, broken promises, lost deposits, worthless expensive services and career pressure tactics than I care to talk about.

Spend your money how you want, but the assertion that I've somehow forgotten what it's like down in the trenches or don't have a passion for helping you guys floored me.
 
Well Doug, I for one am glad that you made this site. Although sometimes you have to sift through the 'advice' of people who may not be qualified to give it, for the most part being a part of this discussion group has helped me a great deal.

As for the ATA "internship" otherwise known as Phase III, I was initially interested in it because to me it seemed like a pretty good idea. But thanks to your comments and the comments of others I have come to the conclusion that it's not that great of a deal after all. For one, if you're a qualified pilot, why wouldn’t a company be willing to pay you for your services? At least enough to pay your rent would be cool. Secondly, you are pretty much one half of a step away from being a scab. If they can get away with free labor, why ever hire a first officer? Anyway, I'm not here to bash ATA, they seemed like a pretty good school.

Thanks Doug.

Dave
 
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Yeah, Doug...What do you know about making it as an airline pilot, anyway?

Oh, wait....;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Chunk, Chunk, Chunk!
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Nah, I probably ought to apologize for "going off" but to be very honest, this industry is very predictible in a lot of ways.

Get this... Air Tran Airways, is charging $25 to ride the jumpseat now!! Credit card only! They say that the revenue is going to go to develop ID verification technologies, but the FAA and ALPA haven't seen a cent of this money.
 
Not to get off topic....but Air Tran is charging $25 bucks for a jumpseat....I bet that if the other airlines started applying that to the Air Tran pilots that crap would stop. To get back on topic....Pilots whoring themselves....it will comeback to bite you in the ass...how many of those Gulfstream pilots do you see at the major....none...If pilots start this it will become a big problems for us future pilots...remember guys,in this enviroment the airlines are trying to reduce costs anyway they can!
 
I can't believe Air Tran is doing it either... Scumbags! Ok, back to the topic!
 
Wow this discussion is sure on FIRE!
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Yeah that's a pretty sweet deal for the airline, "hey Joe, these guys are so desprate they're willing to pay US to fly for us, break out the champaign! we've solved all our financial problems!"
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I'd much rather hear the truth without the suger coating, if I want to hear wonderful stories with rainbows I'll go talk to a flight school recruiter!
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Oh and great job your doing here Doug, don't let anyone convence you otherwise!
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Oh and great job your doing here Doug, don't let anyone convince you otherwise!

[/ QUOTE ] Ditto that! The advice I get here is a whole lot better than the advice I get from a bunch of regional pilots on Flightinfo! Good job with the website Mr. Taylor!
 
I understand the problems that occur with pilot's "whoring themselves out." But just for the sake of argument... I can go to an FBO and rent a 152 for $52/hr to build some time... I can go to company X and pay $10,000 for 300hrs in a turbine aircraft (thats $33/hr)... which seems like the better deal for someone looking to build the time?
 
That's true!

But when you rent a C-152 from an FBO to build hours. You are not really taking away a potential job from anyone. But when you buy part 135 time that is time that you or someone else should be paid to fly, or in the past have been paid to fly, since that flight is generating revenue for the company.

Those companies don't have you flying around in their empty BE-99's to build time. That's why they want you to have a current commercial multi certificate. They have cargo that you fly and they make money off of. Its a win win for them they have people who pay them to ship cargo and a pilot that is willing to pay them to fly for them.

Now that I think of it maybe I should get a big loan and start my own part 135 shipping company and have other pilots pay to fly for me. Are there any potential partners?
 
If anyone still has a question wether or not you may be taking someones job, go to Amerflight's website. www.AMERIFLIGHT.COM If you look under their employment section, you will see that their pilot mins. are normally 135mins. plus 100 multi. If you look under current positions, it says they don't need pilots. I guess not, now that they have free labor. But at some point they had to pay someone to fly. Glad I'm outta there.
 
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Get this... Air Tran Airways, is charging $25 to ride the jumpseat now!! Credit card only!

[/ QUOTE ] Credit Card only what are they afraid a jumpseating pilots check might bounce!
 
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Credit Card only what are they afraid a jumpseating pilots check might bounce!

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering how much a lot of pilots seem to be getting paid, probably so.

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