New Eagle TA

Gonzo said:
One little problem is my understanding is it couldn't happen like that. @BobDDuck @ATN_Pilot @SmitteyB @Seggy @Cruise any of you guys that have been reps and more care to comment?
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I read through the whole thread, and I can't figure out what the hell is going on. I'll probably call Tom or Bill this weekend to see what is going on over there.

But every MEC will have different policies on meetings and negotiations. The Policy Manual that I wrote for the ATN MEC was incredibly strict about only allowing the Negotiating Committee to negotiate with the company. As an MEC Officer, I wasn't even allowed at the bargaining table for Section 6 negotiations. I had to stay in the caucus room. The same was true for the MEC Chairman. Subject matter experts were called on to assist the NC, but only the NC had authority to bargain. And any meeting that took place had to be reported to the entire MEC.

That said, other MECs are far more loose with how they conduct business. ALPA policy at the national level doesn't really dictate who is and isn't allowed to negotiate. What EGL policy is, I couldn't tell you.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I read through the whole thread, and I can't figure out what the hell is going on. I'll probably call Tom or Bill this weekend to see what is going on over there.

But every MEC will have different policies on meetings and negotiations. The Policy Manual that I wrote for the ATN MEC was incredibly strict about only allowing the Negotiating Committee to negotiate with the company. As an MEC Officer, I wasn't even allowed at the bargaining table for Section 6 negotiations. I had to stay in the caucus room. The same was true for the MEC Chairman. Subject matter experts were called on to assist the NC, but only the NC had authority to bargain. And any meeting that took place had to be reported to the entire MEC.

That said, other MECs are far more loose with how they conduct business. ALPA policy at the national level doesn't really dictate who is and isn't allowed to negotiate. What EGL policy is, I couldn't tell you.
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The same as yours.

Some new info coming to light as to why the 6 members abstained, and this IS from mainly Eaglelounge so take it for what it is worth: The company provided proof that they were about to execute plan B and award the E175s elsewhere. This put enough concern in the MEC, and also the mutiny from the 3 members made it clear that the MEC tactic did not have enough unity to succeed, that they decided to let it go to a pilot vote.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
The same as yours.

Some new info coming to light as to why the 6 members abstained, and this IS from mainly Eaglelounge so take it for what it is worth: The company provided proof that they were about to execute plan B and award the E175s elsewhere. This put enough concern in the MEC, and also the mutiny from the 3 members made it clear that the MEC tactic did not have enough unity to succeed, that they decided to let it go to a pilot vote.
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This is correct. The company was ready to announce E-170s at another (nameless) company while at the same time announcing the CRJs being moved off property. It appears all this was in the works sometime last week with an official announcement to be made on Monday.

Enough people got wind of this and decided they would rather not see the company they work for pounded into oblivion. They approached the company and requested another chance.

Also word is that one of the voters who abstained today claimed he would vote YES and that the TA was satisfactory. He was a NO vote on the first AIP.
 
I always saw this as a probability. That being said, I was/am still prepared to let his go down that road.

However, the union has not divulged the full content of the TA yet.

I was never 100% against the 12/4 scale, it was everything else and the carrots they held out, particularly the flow, were very stale.
 
Derg said:
It's poker. You're free to fold the cards at any time, but is it more advantageous to game it out?
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I don't think it's ever advantageous to cash out unless it's to move "up".

But I'm sick and tired of hearing these gorillas scream all over the internet about how they don't care if Eagle shuts down, about how they wish the doors would close, "burn it to the ground..." and so on.

If that is how they really feel then just resign. Quit and go be happy somewhere else. There are plenty of us who want to be here and build off of this TA. If all you want to do is burn Eagle down then leave.
 
Skyvector said:
Fair enough. You realize you can resign at any time, right? What's stopping you?
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I am very close my friend. My house goes on the market next , week followed by a big cross country move of my family, that is divorcing me as a result of this piece of crap dream I chased(no ones fault by my own).
Then I will be in a position to take on a job I would much rather have.
 
Skyvector said:
I don't think it's ever advantageous to cash out unless it's to move "up".

But I'm sick and tired of hearing these gorillas scream all over the internet about how they don't care if Eagle shuts down, about how they wish the doors would close, "burn it to the ground..." and so on.

If that is how they really feel then just resign. Quit and go be happy somewhere else. There are plenty of us who want to be here and build off of this TA. If all you want to do is burn Eagle down then leave.
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That's cool, but welcome to the business. Want to take a peak over at the Delta pilot forum to see how mellow the whole "Eagle Situation" is compared to a bunch of adult men bitching at each other, with a good contract, a company that made almost $600,000,000 last quarter alone, aircraft orders and livable wages?

It'll open you eyes and surprise you.

This ain't shizzle! :)
 
Derg said:
That's cool, but welcome to the business. Want to take a peak over at the Delta pilot forum to see how mellow the whole "Eagle Situation" is compared to a bunch of adult men bitching at each other, with a good contract and livable wages?

It'll open you eyes and surprise you.

This ain't shizzle! :)
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If it's anything like EagleLounge I have a pretty good idea! :)

It's amazing how many grown men act like school children...especially on the interweb.
 
Skyvector said:
I don't think it's ever advantageous to cash out unless it's to move "up".

But I'm sick and tired of hearing these gorillas scream all over the internet about how they don't care if Eagle shuts down, about how they wish the doors would close, "burn it to the ground..." and so on.

If that is how they really feel then just resign. Quit and go be happy somewhere else. There are plenty of us who want to be here and build off of this TA. If all you want to do is burn Eagle down then leave.
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You never replied to my tough questions. Where is your proof of a full pipeline. There is nothing like that I promise.

Do you really think us "gorillas" want to see this place shut down? No! I would likely make Captain in the next 12-24 months if this thing passed. The "Screaming" is the frustration that I don't want this. Faced with taking more draconian pay cuts for this is that frustration. I don't want to make the tough choice but in my heart and soul I believe it is the right thing to do.
 
Skyvector said:
If it's anything like EagleLounge I have a pretty good idea! :)

It's amazing how many grown men act like school children...especially on the interweb.
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Grown men act like children not only on the internet.

In department stores, bars, baseball games, restaurants, barber shops, the halls of congress, office buildings, board rooms, all over. But somehow people think the internet is going to be different.

*giggle*

If it makes you that mad, there are always cat videos. I watched a lot during bankruptcy.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
You never replied to my tough questions. Where is your proof of a full pipeline. There is nothing like that I promise.

Do you really think us "gorillas" want to see this place shut down? No! I would likely make Captain in the next 12-24 months if this thing passed. The "Screaming" is the frustration that I don't want this. Faced with taking more draconian pay cuts for this is that frustration. I don't want to make the tough choice but in my heart and soul I believe it is the right thing to do.
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"Tough' question? Yeah, that's a real "gotcha!"

First, most Regionals are in a training bubble right now. PSA and Mesa in particular but also a few others. Their staffing situation has nothing to do with an inability to hire. They are hiring just fine and filling classes.

Second, when the 50 seaters are parked those pilots will be re-allocated to larger RJ flying. It is what Bedford has done with Republic. Don't be so naive to think that wasn't in the plans for a while because it was. Those pilots are now available to fly the larger RJs....and you will see the same thing happening at all the other Regionals.

In short, they do have the pilots and will continue to do so. AA can replace Eagle's flying and they do have options. You have been swayed by the loud talking heads into believing that you can never be replaced by anybody. You have been swayed into believing that this is all just one big bluff on AA's part. It isn't.

If in light of all that your attitude is still to "shut this place down anyway!" then by all means: resign. Take your badge and manuals into the CP's office tomorrow and be on your way. Otherwise you are just playing the mental masturbation game.

This TA is a tremendous win for us and will provide the kind of career progression pilots at other Regionals can only dream of. Have you even seen what the TA has?
 
Skyvector said:
This TA is a tremendous win for us and will provide the kind of career progression pilots at other Regionals can only dream of. Have you even seen what the TA has?
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Have you? Not trying to start anything, honest question. Can you consider it a big upgrade over the AIP?
 
just_blaze said:
Have you? Not trying to start anything, honest question. Can you consider it a big upgrade over the AIP?
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Yes, and Yes.

Personally I feel the AIP was good the way it was. This new TA has added in a few things that holds AA accountable for the flow-through to appease those who thought it would never happen.
 
I find it hard to believe a Status Rep negotiated on behalf of the pilot group behind the MECs back. If so that is dirty and that rep needs to be recalled.

With that being said, it looks like things really were grim at Eagle, which Charlie and others were quick to dismiss.

I will be interested to see how this unfolds. Nonetheless, you have the Endeavor Air pilots support. Good luck guys.
 
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